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Preliminary report into Air India crash released

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#801

Post by WalterBright »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #629

Assuming this is a murder-suicide and not a mistake or malfunction somehow, it's very damning of the FAA's policy to revoke the pilot's licenses of anyone seeking treatment for mental health issues. This was in India and thus not FAA jurisdiction, but it still would be a case where an untreated mental health issue lead to hundreds of deaths. By making pilots choose between their careers & medical treatment (since the…

I don't see where the win is here:

1. If the pilot hides his mental illness, a mentally ill person is flying the airplane.

2. If the pilot gets treatment for his mental illness, a mentally ill person is flying the plane.

P.S. When I was a teenager, I tried to join the Air Force to be a pilot like my dad. But since I wear glasses, there was no way. The AF was perfectly justified in not taking me, I understood that. I empathize with the rejected pilots, but that's the way it has to be. Life isn't fair. So I chose another career.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#802

Post by throwaway48476 »

lazide wrote: post #104
ceejayoz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect any civil aviation engineer who goes "let's add hydrazine!" to fix problems has a fairly short career, lol.

Yeah, now you have at least two problems.

If you think a suicidal pilot can do a lot of damage just think what releasing a ton of hydrazine in a packed airport would do.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#803

Post by knifie_spoonie »

sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #687
tim333 wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning the fuel off seems roughly equivalent to turning the ignition off when you've parked your car. It's really something rather unlikely to do as a brain fart during takeoff.

Most commercial aircraft have quite a few more buttons, knobs, levers, dials, etc than a car.

Commercial aircraft pilots are also much better trained than car drivers.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#804

Post by throwaway48476 »

blincoln wrote: post #712
cjrp wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fuel cutoff switches are directly behind the throttles, in a central position. Maybe you’re thinking of the stab cutout switches?

This. There are no flip-covers on the switches in any of the photos I've seen. Additionally, it looks like the side guards are only on the left and right sides of the pair of cutoff switches, not in-between the two switches. So if one bumped one switch, seems like it would be very easy to bump them both.

There's a metal nib on the switch and switch housing preventing it from being bumped. There's also a spring holding it down so it can't bounce up. The distance and required force makes switching them at the same time impossible, thus the 1 second difference. This was absolutely an intentional act.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#805

Post by golem14 »

WalterBright wrote: post #801
SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #629

Assuming this is a murder-suicide and not a mistake or malfunction somehow, it's very damning of the FAA's policy to revoke the pilot's licenses of anyone seeking treatment for mental health issues. This was in India and thus not FAA jurisdiction, but it still would be a case where an untreated mental health issue lead to hundreds of deaths. By making pilots choose between their careers & medical treatment (since the…

I don't see where the win is here: 1. If the pilot hides his mental illness, a mentally ill person is flying the airplane. 2. If the pilot gets treatment for his mental illness, a mentally ill person is flying the plane. P.S. When I was a teenager, I tried to join the Air Force to be a pilot like my dad. But since I wear glasses, there was no way. The AF was perfectly justified in not taking me, I understood that. I…

well in case 2, the pilot get treatment and a doctor will decide if she is fit to fly. That's not bulletproof but still better than case 1.

And to your other point, it's easier to give up on your dream job when young and start with a career that you are a fit for, than to be kicked out after a huge sunk cost and maybe even half way to retirement (illnesses might not be known until later in life). Just as disappointing, but not nearly as life destroying.

But I salute you, fellow four-eyes!

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#806

Post by dwattttt »

WalterBright wrote: post #801
SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #629

Assuming this is a murder-suicide and not a mistake or malfunction somehow, it's very damning of the FAA's policy to revoke the pilot's licenses of anyone seeking treatment for mental health issues. This was in India and thus not FAA jurisdiction, but it still would be a case where an untreated mental health issue lead to hundreds of deaths. By making pilots choose between their careers & medical treatment (since the…

I don't see where the win is here: 1. If the pilot hides his mental illness, a mentally ill person is flying the airplane. 2. If the pilot gets treatment for his mental illness, a mentally ill person is flying the plane. P.S. When I was a teenager, I tried to join the Air Force to be a pilot like my dad. But since I wear glasses, there was no way. The AF was perfectly justified in not taking me, I understood that. I…

Where's option 3: a pilot gets treatment for his mental illness and is signed off as safe to fly a plane? For all that it's a fallible process, that seems better than options 1 & 2.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#807

Post by throwaway48476 »

ekianjo wrote: post #421
lazystar wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please. pilot puts everyone to sleep but himself, turns everything off, then does a flyby of his hometown and then puts himself to sleep? the only one more obvious is the german one.

without a black box all of this is supposition.

We know the transponder was manually turned off because of the intermediate mode. The only reason for this is intentional disappearance.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#808

Post by throwaway48476 »

raverbashing wrote: post #591
briandear wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could also suggest that aliens in the cockpit did it — about the same probability. Two switches, on independent circuits, both failing within one second of each other in the exact same way?

I love when people try to sound smart but instead they just prove their ignorance

No. If the probability of component failure is 1 in x, then the probability both fail at the same time is at least 1 in x^2.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#809

Post by throwaway48476 »

manquer wrote: post #719
cosmicgadget wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cutting fuel just after takeoff leaves almost zero time for the other pilot to recover.

it only guarantees an accident it doesn’t guarantee death of the pilot, at such low altitude and speed anyone can survive as the one passenger did . Why would anyone risk potentially surviving a sabotage like that ?

A fully fueled plane crashing in takeoff guarantees a huge fire.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#810

Post by mshockwave »

WalterBright wrote: post #801
SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #629

Assuming this is a murder-suicide and not a mistake or malfunction somehow, it's very damning of the FAA's policy to revoke the pilot's licenses of anyone seeking treatment for mental health issues. This was in India and thus not FAA jurisdiction, but it still would be a case where an untreated mental health issue lead to hundreds of deaths. By making pilots choose between their careers & medical treatment (since the…

I don't see where the win is here: 1. If the pilot hides his mental illness, a mentally ill person is flying the airplane. 2. If the pilot gets treatment for his mental illness, a mentally ill person is flying the plane. P.S. When I was a teenager, I tried to join the Air Force to be a pilot like my dad. But since I wear glasses, there was no way. The AF was perfectly justified in not taking me, I understood that. I…

tangent: I believe Air Force and Navy have loosen the vision requirement quite a bit. IIRC the new rule only measures the corrected vision, regardless how you corrected it, including wearing glasses.
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