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Panic at the Job Market

matt.sh

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Re: Panic at the Job Market

#801

Post by CM30 »

The big problem is that all the issues in tech hiring have been amplified by a thousand in the last year or so. We previously had problems with unrealistic tech requirements and companies looking for unicorns, now we have almost every company operating under those same insane requirements if not more. We previously had issues with interviews asking way too much of the applicant, now they're seemingly twice as long for no apparent reason. There was previously a lot of competition for most roles, now everything has at least a few hundred applicants.

And the worst examples I've seen have been truly insane. At least one role was for a 'designer/developer', as in someone who'd both design the site and build it. Said role also required them to do the online marketing side of things too, have at least 5 years of experience with all three major JavaScript frameworks, do both the frontend and backend coding and presumably do the dev ops/server management work too. They literally wanted a single person to replace the entire tech department.

Meanwhile I also came across a job with about 15 stages in the interview process. It must have been something like a call, a chat with HR, three rounds of coding tests, a behavioural interview, a chat with the CEO, a final stage interview, etc. Yeah, I took one look at that and thought "there is no way I'm wasting time and energy on a process that ridiculous".

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#802

Post by mkl »

jchonphoenix wrote: post #670
bmitc wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

"Low level python" is an amusing statement

> low-level Python implementation

Python is written in C, with raw pointers everywhere, manual reference counting, etc. Python C extensions are certainly low-level too. Knowing these details is important to write good code in some domains, and if you need to get as much performance out of Python as you can.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#803

Post by LunaSea »

meroes wrote: post #527
Aurornis wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. I’ve done some mentoring of CS grads for the past few years. We some times get people with unreasonable interview demands, like companies asking them to make an entire app or website for the interview process. We advise them to decline the really excessive ones. However, it’s rare to see tha…

4-5 hours? No assessment should be over 1 hour and 3-4 hours of interviews for most jobs is excessive. I’ve trudged through long assessments. I can’t think of a single one where a better thought out 30 minute one wouldn’t better. No. I’ll tell you EXACTLY what is going on. The long interview and assessments are because jobs don’t train anymore and these unpaid or underpaid hours are the initial training. 3 hours of a…

Companies don't train because people don't stay. It's a lose-lose situation.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#804

Post by Etheryte »

moravak1984 wrote: post #764
weatherlite wrote: post #701

Sometimes I feel really bummed out I am getting 1/2 (or less?) of Google compensation. But then I open my eyes - see the workers in my daughter's kindergarten slaving away taking care of 30 toddlers for less than half what I make, nurses and doctors working in conditions I wouldn't be able to tolerate for more than a few months without mentally collapsing, the people in the supermarkets, gas stations, police, fire de…

Sometimes I can't believe how much money I make for that little input, and whether that is ethical at all. This idea popped in my mind while on "home office" (sightseeing on the village with my wife) and saw the waitress panic because we paid her with a 500Kč for a 360Kč bill and she didn't know how much change to give... I got my answer right there.

This is such a condescending and arrogant way to look at another human being. "My waitress isn't good at math, hence she's dumb and deserves little pay." No. This is not the world anyone wants to live in, including you, even if you don't know it yet. This is how you get highly segregated societies where everyone points fingers at one another as the whole thing slowly collapses on them. A somewhat spicy take, but see the United Kingdom as an example.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#805

Post by Etheryte »

martchat wrote: post #788

I think the IT job market is getting really dead as a great source of income. There were signs earlier of market saturation, but COVID somehow "covered" them to a certain degree. Of course there are multiple reasons for it, differing in every region: Globally: IT development is in general moving away from outsourcing building custom solutions. You either build it in-house or subscribe to a ready SAAS product from 100…

I don't think this is a convincing argument. Bro management has been saying stuff like this for decades, you can just outsource everything to a cheap country, external partner, or etc. Needless to say we all know how this operation ends every time.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#806

Post by putzdown »

CM30 wrote: post #801

The big problem is that all the issues in tech hiring have been amplified by a thousand in the last year or so. We previously had problems with unrealistic tech requirements and companies looking for unicorns, now we have almost every company operating under those same insane requirements if not more. We previously had issues with interviews asking way too much of the applicant, now they're seemingly twice as long fo…

It is insane. But it leaves the question: why are companies doing it? They must believe it’s working for them, or they’d change it. God knows companies are motivated to hire good people. Maybe someone in HR or even a technical manager in one of these companies can answer: on what theory are these processes believed to be effective?

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#807

Post by ktsangop »

I've switched jobs (software) recently (after 6.5 years).

While searching for jobs, I went once through the "now-standard" hiring procedure for an employer, that included an automated test with programming and IQ-test like questions. It was the 1st time I went through it.

I think that a college freshman might have done better in some of the questions, regardless that I have ~15 years of experience. Also the software they used (their own product I was supposed to work on) had a bug in the report, that falsely indicated I hadn't completed one of the tests.

The whole experience was a. Stressful b. Somewhat irrelevant to my skillset c. Totally dehumanizing

Long story short, I started looking for opportunities using my connections etc, and settled for a job with less $$ but hopefully less bullsh*t too.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#808

Post by Draiken »

weatherlite wrote: post #701

Sometimes I feel really bummed out I am getting 1/2 (or less?) of Google compensation. But then I open my eyes - see the workers in my daughter's kindergarten slaving away taking care of 30 toddlers for less than half what I make, nurses and doctors working in conditions I wouldn't be able to tolerate for more than a few months without mentally collapsing, the people in the supermarkets, gas stations, police, fire de…

We have to complain about literally everything you just said. The entire system is broken.

Everyone should be entitled to live their lives without being subject to these awful conditions, but we as a society keep allowing this to happen because we don't really see them as equals. As long as we individually can get by, we can easily dismiss what everyone else endures.

I would happily live with less if everyone else could live a better life for it. In reality we wouldn't even need to sacrifice much since the wealth accumulation is so large. Redistributing that alone would be more than enough.

I say quit trying to solve systemic issues with individualistic solutions.

Not sure how we can have a "peaceful and happy mind" while everyone outside of our little bubble suffers. This line of thinking is, to me, an example of why we'll never fix any of this.

This attitude of "be happy our bubble isn't as bad as the other bubbles" is a tragedy. Folks, remember we're all in the same boat!

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#809

Post by kanche »

ktsangop wrote: post #807

I've switched jobs (software) recently (after 6.5 years). While searching for jobs, I went once through the "now-standard" hiring procedure for an employer, that included an automated test with programming and IQ-test like questions. It was the 1st time I went through it. I think that a college freshman might have done better in some of the questions, regardless that I have ~15 years of experience. Also the software…

I think IQ tests and similar are a filter to hire younger people without being explicit. Subtle but effective ageism.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#810

Post by spacecadet »

Ultimately everyone is faking. The more we increased college throughput over the last 50 years, the more me increased people in debt and number of midwits in the market competing for similar jobs.

It's all a shadow culture exam... People don't want to feel stupid after all that time and money. There is also a level of "Im here, I cant be wrong". So trying to out smart the interviewer is always a fail unless they are a truly humble person. I know I value surrounding myself with people smarter than me... but I like being challenged and learning.

As Ive watched this unfold, it's been demoralizing at times. In the end, Im just on the hunt for my tribe. Increase your surface area by joining activities where you might meet someone who fits this and work on joining up with them. That's vague- but it comes in many forms and people change, so it's ever changing.

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