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Panic at the Job Market

matt.sh

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Re: Panic at the Job Market

#761

Post by moravak1984 »

generic92034 wrote: post #755
evrimoztamur wrote: post #23

I will add my two cents for people who believe that this might be related only to the SWE and tangent industries: It's really not. I have many friends (in Europe) who are trying to get through to different jobs in unrelated industries ranging from finance to fashion, or just trying to get promoted vertically (or horizontally), failing rather miserably. Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideratio…

> I will add my two cents for people who believe that this might be related only to the SWE and tangent industries: It's really not. I have many friends (in Europe) who are trying to get through to different jobs in unrelated industries ranging from finance to fashion, or just trying to get promoted vertically (or horizontally), failing rather miserably. The weird thing (to me) is, though, that employers in EU countr…

There's a lack of skilled workers *willing to jump through their hoops*. For at third-world country immigrant, jumping through hoops is a first-world problem.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#762

Post by generic92034 »

ornornor wrote: post #760
generic92034 wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will add my two cents for people who believe that this might be related only to the SWE and tangent industries: It's really not. I have many friends (in Europe) who are trying to get through to different jobs in unrelated industries ranging from finance to fashion, or just trying to get promoted vertically (or horizontally), failing rather miserably. The weird thing (to me) is, though, that employers in EU countr…

I think it is a disconnect from reality, but only I you’re looking at it as a clueless politician or as a worker. As an employer, this is exactly what you want: desperate people who will jump through all your hoops because this is correlated with being docile, not wanting much money, being afraid of losing your job, working long hours without complaining about it or asking for more comp, etc. There isn’t a skilled wo…

But are they not already at the stage (again) where they are drowning in applications, even for jobs with a comparably low salary and few benefits?

As for being afraid of losing your job - that is not so easy to pull off in most EU countries. Once you are in for a couple of years the risk of getting laid off individually is very small.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#763

Post by openmajestic »

486sx33 wrote: post #507

In a market with a population of 150k. I ran a job ad and got 292 applicants in under 24 hrs 2 years ago, I’d be lucky to get 8 applicants in a week, with probably 4-6 of those living in India or Pakistan with no way to North America So it’s an absolutely exponential job market crash. Most are sitting tight currently, no one wants to play musical chairs and be left standing.

As a candidate, I'm finding the job market extremely hot, specifically early stage companies in and around AI. Just wanted to put that out there for anyone who might find the info useful - I was worried after hearing apocalyptic things before I started interviewing.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#764

Post by moravak1984 »

weatherlite wrote: post #701

Sometimes I feel really bummed out I am getting 1/2 (or less?) of Google compensation. But then I open my eyes - see the workers in my daughter's kindergarten slaving away taking care of 30 toddlers for less than half what I make, nurses and doctors working in conditions I wouldn't be able to tolerate for more than a few months without mentally collapsing, the people in the supermarkets, gas stations, police, fire de…

Sometimes I can't believe how much money I make for that little input, and whether that is ethical at all. This idea popped in my mind while on "home office" (sightseeing on the village with my wife) and saw the waitress panic because we paid her with a 500Kč for a 360Kč bill and she didn't know how much change to give... I got my answer right there.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#765

Post by dgb23 »

aredox wrote: post #757

>Companies seem to forget they are also part of, you know, the economy and people need compensation to, you know, not die, right? If you aren’t acting as an economic engine for helping the most people thrive, what is your purpose as a company? Maximizing shareholder value, of course.

While this is true in theory, I often wonder whether it’s true in practice.

Our economic models are based on a fundamentally limited image of humanity. This image is sometimes partially true.

Even those who claim to maximize shareholder value, do they really know what that means, or are they just as influenced by societal norms, morals, emotions and personal interests? Does everyone have the absolute knowledge and magical capability to maximize this function?

The older I get, the more I realize that nobody really understands stuff. „Shareholder value“ is just another vague, emotional pressure among many.

Unlike many other leftists, I don’t think capitalism is total. It is a consequence of human behavior moreso than the other way around. It influences human relationships but doesn’t dominate them. More of a symptom than a cause.

But it has become a target for externalising our own flaws, like cynical greed, lack of foresight and holistic understanding.

Abstractions from those flaws might obscure the paths forward.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#766

Post by alexey-salmin »

kredd wrote: post #64

It really sucks right now, but recent grads and juniors are suffering the most right now, to my understanding. There's an over-production of CS grads, as the industry looked very lucrative, so a lot of people decided to go software engineering route. It's hard to make a case for start ups to bet on inexperienced people. For mature companies, why pay for 2 juniors, when you can get a senior for 1.5 price, who might do…

> There's an over-production of CS grads, as the industry looked very lucrative, so a lot of people decided to go software engineering route.

I don't know about CS grads but I definitely don't see an overproduction of Junior Engineers, or at least what I expect of them. Junior Engineer in my understanding is someone who knows algorithms and data structures, knows at least one programming language really well and can quickly write small programs in that language. He lacks any real experience, he probably never worked on a project bigger than 10k of code, he may not know what CI/CD or docker is, BUT he can code. If you add some curiosity into the mix, he'll have a solid growth path in front of him.

Most of the people I interview for Junior positions cannot code, just can't write 5 lines (sic) of code on the interview on the language they claim is their favorite. I honestly don't understand it, would you apply for a junior cook if you can't cook a ham sandwich? A junior taxi driver if don't know how to drive a car?

Junior means "lots of knowledge but no experience" but somehow in IT many people assume that it means "no knowledge, no experience".

If you know where to find overproduced Junior Engineers let me know please and I'll hire them with pleasure.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#767

Post by sdsd »

xxpor wrote: post #97
emptysongglass wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, how would anyone have heard about this? This is the very first time I'm hearing anything about Section 174. Plus, this doesn't really explain Europe's tech sector dumping, since from a quick search this is entirely an American thing. So maybe you're just as wrong as anyone else?

I've heard about it a million times, but I also tend to follow tech-business things (folks on twitter, Stratechery, etc). Agree it doesn't explain Europe.

Any good twitter accounts you recommend? I follow like 2000 people but always looking for more. Always, what's your @?

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#768

Post by JSavageOne »

Yea the job market is brutal. Being unemployed and getting rejection after rejection is really the most demoralizing thing.

Behavioral interviews are actually my least favorite and I have no idea why I'm not passing them. Either my experience is not good enough, or I'm not presenting it well enough.

Anyways to anyone struggling out there - hang in there. Remember that all it takes is one offer to be employed.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#769

Post by pentaphobe »

giantg2 wrote: post #560
bmitc wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

"If someone can't hire well, it's not a good place to work." But nobody hires well, so where can I work?

hijacking this comment to apologise for missing your reply elsewhere until it was too late to respond.

(Won't escalate the hijack by fully replying here, but TLDR: yeah - no policy can fully remove bias, but we lean heavily on diverse peer review to at least catch it, and we seek and adapt to feedback)

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#770

Post by oblio »

moravak1984 wrote: post #764
weatherlite wrote: post #701

Sometimes I feel really bummed out I am getting 1/2 (or less?) of Google compensation. But then I open my eyes - see the workers in my daughter's kindergarten slaving away taking care of 30 toddlers for less than half what I make, nurses and doctors working in conditions I wouldn't be able to tolerate for more than a few months without mentally collapsing, the people in the supermarkets, gas stations, police, fire de…

Sometimes I can't believe how much money I make for that little input, and whether that is ethical at all. This idea popped in my mind while on "home office" (sightseeing on the village with my wife) and saw the waitress panic because we paid her with a 500Kč for a 360Kč bill and she didn't know how much change to give... I got my answer right there.

That's a failure of society, not her fault. Subtraction is a skill chimps can master. The fact that she reached this stage means society failed her.
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