Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#801

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

okprod wrote: post #759

namedpipe wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best mitigation strategy here is to engage your vendors with private contracts instead of depending on generic terms of service (ToS) alone. Every company I've worked with has negotiated separate agreements with providers to reduce risk. Including contracts with both AWS and Azure. If your business gets to a certain size and you are still on the generic ToS and paying by credit card you have a big risk on your ha…

I don't think it's possible to secure a contract with such favorable terms that you can not get cut off for inciting physical violence on government property. OP would also need to be a fairly large player to able to negotiate favorable terms with someone like AWS to begin with.

> I don’t think it’s possible to secure a contract with such favorable terms that you can not get cut off for inciting physical violence on government property.

Not only is it not possible in the pragmatic sense, I don’t think its legally possible, since knowingly carrying such content is quite often criminal (not just for you, but if the higher-level vendor knows about it its criminal for them), and a contract to commit a crime is usually void.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#802

Post by munificent » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #563

munificent wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair, but in this case we're talking about a US company hosting another US company's data, so I think talking about free speech in the context of the First Amendment is reasonable.

The distinction between private and public sphere is not completely clear. Let us say that a politician calls Mark Zuckerberg and asks him nicely to squish certain people, and MZ complies. Is that a First Amendment issue or not? Or, let us say that a politician calls Mark Zuckerberg and offers him some concrete support (in an anti-trust case or taxation matters) for squishing certain people, and MZ takes up the offer…

I agree with everything you say, but I don't see that "free speech" needs to be the hammer you use to drive in that nail. Concentration of power in the few is bad for many many reasons independent of free speech.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#803

Post by ncallaway » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

skynet-9000 wrote: post #784

IanCal wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a wild misrepresentation of the facts. That was the second of two tweets, that they are taking together. This was the other "The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!” They explain the context and how these tweets are being int…

Ok, so it looks like the two tweets were: "The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!! "To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th." I fail to see the issue with these tweets. He is not planni…

I think it's some of the following factors:

- President Trump’s statement that he will not be attending the Inauguration is being received by a number of his supporters as further confirmation that the election was not legitimate and is seen as him disavowing his previous claim made via two Tweets (1, 2) by his Deputy Chief of Staff, Dan Scavino, that there would be an “orderly transition” on January 20th.

- The second Tweet may also serve as encouragement to those potentially considering violent acts that the Inauguration would be a “safe” target, as he will not be attending.

- The use of the words “American Patriots” to describe some of his supporters is also being interpreted as support for those committing violent acts at the US Capitol.

- The mention of his supporters having a “GIANT VOICE long into the future” and that “They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!” is being interpreted as further indication that President Trump does not plan to facilitate an “orderly transition” and instead that he plans to continue to support, empower, and shield those who believe he won the election.

- Plans for future armed protests have already begun proliferating on and off-Twitter, including a proposed secondary attack on the US Capitol and state capitol buildings on January 17, 2021.

> He is not planning to attend an inauguration because he will not be inaugurated President? Is that such a huge problem?

It's pretty significant as it hasn't happened since 1869.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#804

Post by golemiprague » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #749

roenxi wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds very reasonable up until attempting to identify what, objectively, is the bar to set business policy. Twitter literally claims that "To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th." was the straw that broke the camels back [0]. That isn't an objective bar. Context which "everyone knows" is a political question - a highly political question. If AWS happens to have a s…

Maybe it was the part where he directed an angry mob to the steps of the Capitol building?

No post body was provided.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#805

Post by munificent » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

gameman144 wrote: post #592

randyrand wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider this - If the conservative farmers and distributers individually decided not serve the bay area anyone, they are well within their rights. Political ideology is not protected, regardless of how important you perceive basic accommodations like shelter, food, or communication are.

Now consider the scenario where all the large agriculture firms and distributors cut off the Bay Area. Sure, the Bay Area could start their own farms to meet that need, but I could hardly imagine the whole population living there saying "This is fine, they're well within their rights." This feels to me like a situation of "fine for anyone to do, problematic for everyone to do". With political ideology not a protected…

> Now consider the scenario where all the large agriculture firms and distributors cut off the Bay Area.

Now consider that this exact scenario is currently affecting 23.5 million people in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#806

Post by exporectomy » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #721

cactus2093 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the best mitigations here, both technical and social? Vocally side with the popular issues, or try to stay completely out of them, to try to avoid becoming a target (e.g., social media presence)? For now, don't attempt to overturn a fair democratic election and install an illegitimate government. Seems like a pretty easy thing to stay clear of. I get the concern you're expressing, but not everything is a s…

It sounds very reasonable up until attempting to identify what, objectively, is the bar to set business policy. Twitter literally claims that "To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th." was the straw that broke the camels back [0]. That isn't an objective bar. Context which "everyone knows" is a political question - a highly political question. If AWS happens to have a s…

Wow, the contrived reasoning in that Twitter statement is beyond belief:

Trump: "I totally disagree with the outcome of the election [...] there will be an orderly transition [...] I will not be going to the Inauguration"

Twitter's interpretation: I don't think the election is legitimate, therefore I disavow my statement that the transition will be orderly, therefore you should commit violence. Also, since I won't be at the inauguration, you're free to do terrorism there without risk of harming me personally.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#807

Post by mikaeluman » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

This has serious implications for any business thinking about hosting their applications on Amazon or other providers.

I used to be a big proponent of doing this on AWS or Azure but with these actions there are suddenly real risks to consider.

The precedent has been set, and it will now be used to force down other businesses, when the time is right and there is a clear viable target for outrage.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#808

Post by advpetc » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

From the other side of the coin, I see that technology can be controlled if certain events happened. I remember the time when people discuss if artificial intelligence will take control of human, and we can't do anything to stop.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#809

Post by res0nat0r » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

obviouslynotme wrote: post #727

zmb_ wrote: post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

If AWS is dropping you, then Facebook, Twitter, and Google probably already have. Stripe, Cloudflare, and Paypal are probably doing the same. If you try to continue, Visa, MasterCard, and your ISP will shut you down next. This is the world we live in now. You can be removed from commerce by a unanimous decision that you will be told never happened. I am just glad I can shut people down hard now when they say, "If you…

Parler obviously only existed to cater to right wing extrimsm and violent rhetoric. It's the reason they "couldn't" moderate it, as if they did there would be no reason for it to exist.

Reddit is still around even after r/thedonald and other violent / hateful subreddits were on the site and finally banned. The difference is reddit doesn't primarily exist to foster violence and extremism.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#810

Post by bawolff » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #740

bawolff wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best mitigation is negotiating strong contracts with significant penalties if the provider does not provide the services promised. Its not like getting screwed over because a vendor changes its mine about fulfilling its obligations half way through is a new issue, this is just a bit of an exceptional case of that.

“ Your faith in the legal system is appalling. ” https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2009-06-26

Penalties for non performance is like the most standard thing possible in a contract. Its hardly some unfair clause like you agree not to sue ever. Hell, even without a clause specificly stating penalties, you could still probably sue for damages from breaching a contract. (Obviously in the parler case amazon probably didnt breach, but if you are negotiating your own contract it probably wouldn't allow for arbitrary termination with no notice)