Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

decrypt.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

801–810 of 1001 posts

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#801

Post by lwansbrough »

behringer wrote: post #625
generalk wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. The world could use an online independent currency I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency? > 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having > that work on a large scale is a good thing Having a blo…

No doubt if FB (i refuse to call them libra) coins become popular, when world governments limit crypto currency at FB's request, FB coins will no doubt be the only exception.

Zucc Buccs it is, then.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#802

Post by sytelus »

hjk05 wrote: post #680
taurath wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency? Visa and Mastercard are taking a 3-4% cut of every single consumer payment made in much of the world. That ends up being a very, very big number. There are many people a…

> Visa and Mastercard are taking a 3-4% cut of every single consumer payment made in much of the world. That ends up being a very, very big number. In Denmark we solved this the lowtech way. Visa cards have to be Dual visa/dancard, where the dancard has extremely low cut limited by law(0,055$/transaction flat rate) It’s not hard, it just requires you have politicians capable of dodging the huge piles of cash MasterCa…

Cards are yesterday things. Many countries quickly moving on to phone based payments. Its much secure (requires touch or face ID) than doing fake signatures. I've no idea why visa/mastercard can't move to this. The often given reason for massive 5% cut is potential voided transactions, merchant setup, cashback expected by customers and ofcourse profit. Much of these can be eliminated by phone based transactions. This space is ripe for disruption.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#803

Post by grafporno »

mrfenk wrote: post #754
app4soft wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will allow for a worldwide social credit system. If Facebook decides to remove you, your money and many services will be inaccessible. And this is creepy thing here.

A lot of people in this thread don't distinct between Libra the currency and Calibra the Facebook wallet. A wallet controlled by Facebook is indeed worrying, and I hope that there will be enough worthy competing alternatives. The Libra network on the other hand looks very solid.

Anything controlled by Facebook is suspect by definition.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#804

Post by kristianp »

wmf wrote: post #631
ilaksh wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. Libra coin is backed by Visa. The whole point of cryptocurrency to avoid having to go through middlemen like Visa or even require banks. This is a way for the intermediaries to cash in on the cryptocurrency hype and squash it before cryptocurrency payments become mainstream. They want to insert their own thing that looks like a cryptocurrency but will allow them to continue to profit from and control the exc…

If Libra ends up with 10x more users than all other cryptocurrencies combined, who are you to say what the point is? The existing cryptocurrency space has spent a decade building something that a relatively small number of people are really passionate about but it's the opposite of what the masses want.

I agree with your point. I think Libra is likely to have more users than Bitcoin not long after it goes live. Libra will be easier to use than a credit card, let alone Bitcoin.

I can't find the citation, but I think Paul Graham said, make it easier to use and cheaper than the incumbents and you'll have a good chance of succeeding.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#805

Post by grafporno »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #626
JaRail wrote: post #536

I'm surprised to see Coinbase as a founding member. I wonder if they'll allow direct conversions between Libra and other cryptocurrencies. It's interesting to note that there aren't any device manufacturers as members. No Google, Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc. That's going to make this an uphill battle for them. It implies that those companies have their own ideas. Or, perhaps, they just aren't willing to partner with FB…

I think it makes perfect sense for Coinbase to tap into this flow.

It makes perfect sense in terms of a PR Win-Win situation: Facebook gets the "crypto currency" credibility, Coinbase gets more PR (and more crypto buyers) in general.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#806

Post by coinanalyst »

A key factor to consider: Libra has intrinsic value but Bitcoin doesn't.

From libra.org: "Libra is fully backed by a reserve of real assets. A basket of currencies and assets will be held in the Libra Reserve for every Libra that is created, building trust in its intrinsic value."

Fixed supply is a fatal design flaw of Bitcoin which leads to it not likely having any intrinsic value ever. Let me explain:

1. Fiat money's intrinsic value: A homeowner who borrows against their home is guaranteed to get full control of the home when they deliver the amount they owe, which is denominated in fiat. It is a powerful incentive to exchange goods and services for fiat. Even for participants who don't owe fiat, knowing that the fiat is intrinsically valuable to debtors means that it can be used to purchase goods and services from them.

2. There is no such incentive behind Bitcoin. Negligible amount of debt is denominated in Bitcoin. If Bitcoin value falls towards zero, there’s no real-economy backed mechanism to bring it back. There is no contractual guarantee that spending X amount of Bitcoins can entitle the purchaser to receive Y amount of services.

3. Bitcoin will likely never be a debt instrument. Bitcoin has a fixed supply, and the design goal of this is for Bitcoin to be deflationary. If there’s an equilibrium interest rate in Bitcoin, that rate is highly likely to be negative and more than the cost of owning Bitcoin. This removes incentives for Bitcoin holders to lend out the currency, consequently there will be no debt, and no contract that allows debtors to receive real goods by delivering Bitcoins.

This argument applies to most non-stable cryptocurrencies. From this reasoning alone, I see Libra has a much higher chance to succeed than its crypto peers.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#807

Post by omeid2 »

drcode wrote: post #391
beezischillin wrote: post #215

I would never ever ever ever trust PayPal, Spotify, Mastercard and the likes to manage my money. It simply sounds like lots and lots and lots of happy little "accidents" and "bugs" waiting to happen for political opponents as they lose their livelihoods. The people who came up with the whole "Manifest Observable Behavior" and random "Suspended for Breach of Community Standards" violations have no place around anyone'…

The important question isn't what you or I will do, but what the 90% of people will do who don't care about privacy/oligopolies.

Won't take long for people to realize, unlike other "new" utilities like social media people, generally, have a reasonable grasp of the value of money and the risk of it, mostly because they have experienced it. relatively, very few people experience the wrong end of the technocratic-sanctions stick.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#808

Post by Morizero »

csomar wrote: post #685
Morizero wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a strong anti-facebook bias I can tell you from own experience that Facebook's dark patterns are incredibly frustrating at best, and at worst come off as malicious to the end-user. For example, I refuse to download the Facebook app. When using the mobile website, it often shows me as having new messages. Clicking the notification then redirects me to download the app. Requesting the desktop site, however, shows no…

No, I think you misunderstood the notifications. I did at first. Basically Facebook shows you when someone read your messages. This shows up as a notification in messenger mobile but not in the web version. There are others too but I don’t remember the exact circumstances.

You're just strengthening my point - if I'm misunderstanding something, it's because Facebook has deliberately chosen to make it difficult to understand. That's further reinforced by the fact that they have an incentive to do so - increasing app installs.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#809

Post by chii »

coinanalyst wrote: post #806

A key factor to consider: Libra has intrinsic value but Bitcoin doesn't. From libra.org: "Libra is fully backed by a reserve of real assets. A basket of currencies and assets will be held in the Libra Reserve for every Libra that is created, building trust in its intrinsic value." Fixed supply is a fatal design flaw of Bitcoin which leads to it not likely having any intrinsic value ever. Let me explain: 1. Fiat money…

Not being able to generate debt denominated in Bitcoins is a design goal, and I feel, possibly a good one (if too idealistic).

Fractional reserve banking lends too much power in to the hands of those who control the process. Fractional reserve is impossible in Bitcoins (unless you trust the word of the other party). This doesn't mean loans or debt can't exist, but it is not denominated in Bitcoins, but just as records on paper. And you also cannot loan out Bitcoins you don't own (nor loan out nonexistent Bitcoins like you could with fiat). This leads to more responsible lending, and cuts speculative gambling with assets. I think in the long run, this is a good thing (even though it would hurt in the short term).

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#810

Post by thekevan »

dmje wrote: post #542

Kind of interested in what this means for a non Facebook user. As one of those I already feel sometimes marginalised when content is shared on their walled garden and I need my wife to look at the dates for my kids’ sporting events because they’re only published on Facebook. Now I’m going to be unable to carry out financial transactions, too.

>Now I’m going to be unable to carry out financial transactions, too.

Not so, their wallet requires no FB or Whatsapp account to use. It's open and so competitors can build wallets which also have no FB connection at all.

Your statement also assumes it will become some sort of "global currency", which it certainly won't. I mean, why would it?

Post reply on HN