UK votes to leave EU • Hacker News Board

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#801

Post by lovich » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 2:03 PM UTC

notacoward wrote: post #766

That's a very strange, and in some cases inaccurate, portrayal of history. * The British were not an external enemy. That would have been the French. For the most part, even the people leading the revolution were proud of being British subjects and would have liked to remain so, but could no longer tolerate the conditions being attached to that status. Our enemy was recognized to be our own cousins, not some external…

You can ignore the fact that things like manifest destiny were very important to Americans in the past because it's an uncomfortable idea nowadays, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#802

Post by madengr » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 2:03 PM UTC

redthrowaway wrote: post #487

_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

The US did not magic itself into existence as a united state. It began in common purpose with a shared, very strong, external enemy. It then assigned itself a shared dream of settling the content. And, crucially, it already had a shared cultural identity, shared language, and shared religion when it began. The EU does not have a common enemy to force it together. It does not have a shared language, or culture, or ide…

U.K. And EU will be under Sharia law soon enough anyway, so it's a lost cause.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#803

Post by ethanbond » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

lovich wrote: post #801

notacoward wrote: post #766

That's a very strange, and in some cases inaccurate, portrayal of history. * The British were not an external enemy. That would have been the French. For the most part, even the people leading the revolution were proud of being British subjects and would have liked to remain so, but could no longer tolerate the conditions being attached to that status. Our enemy was recognized to be our own cousins, not some external…

You can ignore the fact that things like manifest destiny were very important to Americans in the past because it's an uncomfortable idea nowadays, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen

Is there any evidence that manifest destiny was a widely and deeply held conviction amongst common Americans? I'm not asking to be contrarian – I really have no clue.

It seems more believable that it would only be deeply held (if held at all) by the westward bound.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#804

Post by kdamken » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #378

I'm a Finn, and always thought that UK could be an interesting place to live some day. This decision completely destroys that possibility because moving to a non-EU country is not a realistic option -- I wouldn't go out of my way to look for bureaucratic headaches. Since the UK doesn't want people like me, I guess it will increasingly become another place I never think about. This was a major win for isolationism, bu…

You're probably not the kind of people they're trying to prevent coming there.

You're right though, I'm sure people will totally forget that the UK exists now.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#805

Post by samirm » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 2:15 PM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

> "no arbitrary geographic borders limiting the freedom and the rights of the individual"

Wouldn't that be nice? Too bad no one stops to think about the rest of the world...

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#806

Post by cabalamat » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 2:20 PM UTC

witty_username wrote: post #641

cabalamat wrote: post #568

> What culture do Germans, Greeks, Latvians, Bulgarians, Fins, and Spaniards share? The one that used to be called the Roman Empire, then Christendom, and is now called Western Civilisation. It is also arguably the greatest achievement of the human species.

How is it the greatest achievement? There are many other civilizations.

Yes but only one of them invented computers, the internet, the steam engine, the internal combustion engine, the jet engine, the steam turbine, aircraft, modern medicine, anasthetic dentistry, etc.

If it wasn't for the West, humanity would still be mired in dirt, poverty and ignorance.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#807

Post by jdmichal » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 2:23 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #671

_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

> A very sad day for everyone in Europe. I don't know, I'm pretty glad myself. > The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. Only there is not much "growing together". Besides the bureaucracy there were certain large countries (and alliances) pissing all over smaller ones, in things from trade agreements to fiscal policies and other d…

I think you hit on something that's been bothering me here in the US too: The federalization of state freedom. That is, when a super-state entity like the EU or US federal government passes laws which restrict the freedom of the states to implement their own distinct solutions.

I'm not super familiar with the EU agreements, but the US Constitution was supposed to restrict federal power over the states. An unfortunate loophole was found through taxes. Citizens pay federal taxes, then some amount of those taxes flows back into state power. The federal laws I'm discussing don't have criminal or even civil penalties, but rather restrict or eliminate this flow of funds unless the will of the federal government is met. Sure, the states can technically do whatever they want, but these are very large funding streams that they will be missing out on. That's like saying I can technically choose to not work... It's true, but it's also a sure way to end up in a bad spot.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#808

Post by gadders » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 2:24 PM UTC

notacoward wrote: post #766

That's a very strange, and in some cases inaccurate, portrayal of history. * The British were not an external enemy. That would have been the French. For the most part, even the people leading the revolution were proud of being British subjects and would have liked to remain so, but could no longer tolerate the conditions being attached to that status. Our enemy was recognized to be our own cousins, not some external…

George Washington was British :-)

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#809

Post by adventured » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 2:25 PM UTC

notacoward wrote: post #766

That's a very strange, and in some cases inaccurate, portrayal of history. * The British were not an external enemy. That would have been the French. For the most part, even the people leading the revolution were proud of being British subjects and would have liked to remain so, but could no longer tolerate the conditions being attached to that status. Our enemy was recognized to be our own cousins, not some external…

> given that said continent was already occupied and settling it meant exterminating the current residents

This is a false historical picture. Most of the continent was not settled at all, most of it was empty. Most of it is still empty space today. You'd have to claim there were billions of Native Americans to pretend it was entirely settled.

The average settler never killed a single Native American. Up to 90% of the Native American population was killed off by Europeans through the spread of germs prior to the formation of the United States.

The infamous Trail of Tears involved 4,000 Native Americans being killed. Napoleon's wars murdered millions of Europeans by comparison.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#810

Post by rdtsc » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 2:26 PM UTC

herbst wrote: post #655

rdtsc wrote: post #200

Being selfish here, wonder how this affects US. Even though on the surface EU and UK are alies and trade partners, it is not all black and white. I believe US will benefit because they will be able to play UK against EU and vice-versa to gain somehow. Say if EU doesn't allow import of US chicken they can go and try to persuade UK to not allow some import from EU in exchange for some other favor and so on. Also, I wou…

Afaik the US barely exports to europe (especially your example sounded odd to me, i never saw american food on the shelf except cookies). I dont think it will affect the US a lot.

It was just an example. Could be IT services, or other things. The point is, US can take advantage of pitting UK against EU. I read it used to do it, in European politics to separate European countries, before the creation of EU.