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I would have hired Doug, but...

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Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#81

Post by adevine »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #29

I'm 30 and a senior programmer. What should I be doing to ensure I have career options at 50? Is management inevitable with individual contribution primarily reserved for scrappy youngsters?

I would say there are generally a couple options: 1. Yes, first is straight-forward dev management. 2. I would say another option related to #1 is to go into PRODUCT management, which can then lead to higher level product responsibilities. Someone who is a great product manager who ALSO has a deep technological understanding of implementation options is a real rarity and extremely valuable in today's job market. 3. If you do want to be spending the majority of your time writing code at 50, you need to do everything you can to be a complete expert in some technology. You'll need to change with the times as that technology evolves and pick up new skills, but lots of technologies have lifespans longer than we may think. For example, Java has been around for 20 years already, C++ for over 30, and there is still loads of running technology that uses these languages.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#82

Post by derefr »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #79
markbnj wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point and agree with it. I've said it many times myself. But people don't think in terms of mastering a craft and spending a productive life practicing it. In the modern world if you're not on a trajectory toward the 1% you're losing. In that sense most engineering fields are "traps" because if you stay an engineer you aren't going any further up the ladder. I'm a craftsperson, and I still practice the cra…

> In the modern world if you're not on a trajectory toward the 1% you're losing. And what, exactly, is it that you're losing? You can have a pretty damn fine life without getting anywhere near the 1%.

The respect of your peers, presumably.

The best gift I was ever given was to grow up on a farm. I'm doing way better than my peers.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#83

Post by scarecrowbob »

I play a lot of music with folks older than me... I'm 37, and the drummer in a blues band I play with is 73 (he's a neat guy- he was in the 13th Floor Elevators).

I've played with folks in their late 80s, and most of the folks I play with weekly in a large jazz band are between 50 and 70. I also play bi-weekly with an orchestra with members ranging from 12-82.

Maybe I lack the same perspective I lacked when I was younger (and thought that 45 was pretty old), but I absolutely don't see how 60 is old. 80 is old, maybe, but 60 just isn't that old, and I don't mean that in the attitude sense, as with:

"The ones that love me say I'm really young, and I appreciate that. I think they mean my thinking is flexible, and I'm excited about the future, like a young person might be."

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#84

Post by typedweb »

lisper wrote: post #65
SCHiM wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine all the technologies and skills you guys have acquired. If I may derail the conversation a little bit, may I ask if/how you use the things you've learned today? I mean, is it things like paradigms that have stuck with you like OOP/functional/w\e, or do you always structure your exception handling in a certain way, no matter the language? Are there skills/technologies you've been using since you've sta…

No more BASIC, but I still code in Common Lisp whenever I can. And I'm using some library code that I wrote when I was in grad school 25 years ago. Once you grok Lisp, everything else is easy. You come to realize that the vast majority of what passes for "new technologies" is really just a re-discovery of something that exists (or is easily implemented) in CL. That makes it a lot easier (if a tad frustrating at times…

Same with conditions and restarts.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#85

Post by diminoten »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #79
markbnj wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point and agree with it. I've said it many times myself. But people don't think in terms of mastering a craft and spending a productive life practicing it. In the modern world if you're not on a trajectory toward the 1% you're losing. In that sense most engineering fields are "traps" because if you stay an engineer you aren't going any further up the ladder. I'm a craftsperson, and I still practice the cra…

> In the modern world if you're not on a trajectory toward the 1% you're losing. And what, exactly, is it that you're losing? You can have a pretty damn fine life without getting anywhere near the 1%.

Legacy. Empire. Providing for your children's children. Giving your loved ones the kind of life they've never even considered possible. Seeing the smile on your mother's face when you get to tell her she can stop working, that you've taken care of her and your father, and your brothers and sisters.

The 1% are living in a way that will last longer than they will, on a scale that the rest of us won't achieve in our lifetimes. That's okay, certainly, but to pretend like there's no reason to work towards the 1% is silly.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#86

Post by no1publicenemy »

bliti wrote: post #67

As someone who started programming during the mid 80's: - Everything I've learned may be applied to most languages. Meaning that writing testable code generally translates from BASIC to Javascript. - Programming should always make you feel stupid. Feeling comfortable with something means that you stopped learning new things. - Experience != Knowledge. My biggest issue with some older programmers is that they tend to…

With all due respect, how would mobile devices replace/match the computing experience I have now with my 27" computer?

How would be that possible?

Good spirit and even better understanding of the Zeitgeist :)

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#87

Post by AndrewWright »

scarecrowbob wrote: post #83

I play a lot of music with folks older than me... I'm 37, and the drummer in a blues band I play with is 73 (he's a neat guy- he was in the 13th Floor Elevators). I've played with folks in their late 80s, and most of the folks I play with weekly in a large jazz band are between 50 and 70. I also play bi-weekly with an orchestra with members ranging from 12-82. Maybe I lack the same perspective I lacked when I was you…

Am I the only one who noticed "he was in 13th Floor Elevators"? Whoa! That's rad! And props on making music the priority, not worrying about age.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#88

Post by ScottBurson »

lisper wrote: post #65
SCHiM wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine all the technologies and skills you guys have acquired. If I may derail the conversation a little bit, may I ask if/how you use the things you've learned today? I mean, is it things like paradigms that have stuck with you like OOP/functional/w\e, or do you always structure your exception handling in a certain way, no matter the language? Are there skills/technologies you've been using since you've sta…

No more BASIC, but I still code in Common Lisp whenever I can. And I'm using some library code that I wrote when I was in grad school 25 years ago. Once you grok Lisp, everything else is easy. You come to realize that the vast majority of what passes for "new technologies" is really just a re-discovery of something that exists (or is easily implemented) in CL. That makes it a lot easier (if a tad frustrating at times…

Ha! I'm still using a piece of Lisp library code that I wrote as an undergrad 35 years ago :-)

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#89

Post by ScottBurson »

ericssmith wrote: post #26
michaelangerman wrote: post #19

I am 55 and have been programming computers since 1975 when I was 15 years old. Do the math, I have been programming now for 40 years. Recently, I had a conversation with someone else about this topic and I told them that I have never been so excited about my career, the field of computer science, and most importantly the opportunities that exist today in the field of technology. The excitement surrounding too many t…

I am 53 and started programming in 1977. I feel EXACTLY the same as you.

57 here, programming since 1972. Yes, it is an incredibly exciting time. It's particularly great to see AI taking off after all these years.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#90

Post by smoyer »

ericssmith wrote: post #26
michaelangerman wrote: post #19

I am 55 and have been programming computers since 1975 when I was 15 years old. Do the math, I have been programming now for 40 years. Recently, I had a conversation with someone else about this topic and I told them that I have never been so excited about my career, the field of computer science, and most importantly the opportunities that exist today in the field of technology. The excitement surrounding too many t…

I am 53 and started programming in 1977. I feel EXACTLY the same as you.

Almost 51 and I'm only a couple years away from my 40th programming anniversary. I can't imagine doing anything else ... I get paid but it's not work for me!
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