I would have hired Doug, but... • Hacker News Board

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#11

Post by hoprocker » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:03 PM UTC

curun1r wrote: post #8

jgrahamc wrote: post #2

"Unlike Engelbart, I have re-tooled. I now work in JavaScript in the browser and on the server. I had to walk away from the codebase that I loved. I understood that the price of relevance is to give up fighting at some point and settle for a partial victory. I think I was right in the development environment I created. But right doesn't mean the world uses what you created." Yep. That's the key to staying relevant: c…

This. I see too many older developers who complain about ageism, but what's really going on is that they're essentially the same developer they were 2-3 years into their career. If you've been working in the industry for over 20 years, employers can and should expect that you've made the most of it. Those developers have very few problems with ageism. It's the ones that have become comfortable and stagnated that have…

Who was it that said, "It's not 10 years worth of experience, it's the same year repeated 10 times"?

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#12

Post by guard-of-terra » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:04 PM UTC

lamuerteflaca wrote: post #7

guard-of-terra wrote: post #3

I'm 30 now (from time to time I feel that I've already lived enough and am mostly done), the idea of expecting at least 30 productive years ahead of me is intriguing.

What have you done that makes you feel satisfied with your life? Just curious. I'm 37 and feel like I'm just getting started. Keep in mind that I have wasted very little time. Always working on some project here or there. Right now I'm planning my next fourty years. So it really makes me wonder how you can feel you are done.

Maybe it is exactly because I've "wasted" a lot of time on leisure activities so I have quite some fond memories.

Did some nice things professionally, too.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#13

Post by derefr » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:05 PM UTC

intrasight wrote: post #6

When I was a young man, a slightly older associate told me that "programming is a trap". What he meant is that if you are relatively smart, you can get a CS degree, get good at it, and go earn a fantastic income right out of school. I heard the words. I understood the words. I agreed with the words. Even now, 30 years later, I keep asking "is this a trap that I choose to remain in?" I still love programming, but it i…

A trap, compared to what? Is plumbing a trap? Is finance a trap? Is hairstyling a trap?

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#14

Post by hoprocker » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:06 PM UTC

lamuerteflaca wrote: post #7

guard-of-terra wrote: post #3

I'm 30 now (from time to time I feel that I've already lived enough and am mostly done), the idea of expecting at least 30 productive years ahead of me is intriguing.

What have you done that makes you feel satisfied with your life? Just curious. I'm 37 and feel like I'm just getting started. Keep in mind that I have wasted very little time. Always working on some project here or there. Right now I'm planning my next fourty years. So it really makes me wonder how you can feel you are done.

Totally agree. I feel like I didn't really start to think in large strokes until I hit 30. Maybe I'll feel the same once I'm past 50.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#15

Post by timmy-turner » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:07 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #9

jgrahamc wrote: post #2

"Unlike Engelbart, I have re-tooled. I now work in JavaScript in the browser and on the server. I had to walk away from the codebase that I loved. I understood that the price of relevance is to give up fighting at some point and settle for a partial victory. I think I was right in the development environment I created. But right doesn't mean the world uses what you created." Yep. That's the key to staying relevant: c…

For me, the thing that gets a bit discouraging at times is the feeling of riding a slow-motion merry-go-round. Every 10 years or so you see the same ideas start to come around again, only with some new paint and landscaping. I have found myself more than once thinking that learning about some new trendy buzzword is just ultimately a waste of time, since I will barely have mastered it before it's been replaced by the…

And you hopefully have learnt from the mistakes Powerbuilder did back in '95, not making them again. So in theory you're ahead of the crowd of today.

Though that means that you have acknowledge that things were not all that great back then as you remember - which seems to get harder as one grows older.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#16

Post by songzme » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:07 PM UTC

intrasight wrote: post #6

When I was a young man, a slightly older associate told me that "programming is a trap". What he meant is that if you are relatively smart, you can get a CS degree, get good at it, and go earn a fantastic income right out of school. I heard the words. I understood the words. I agreed with the words. Even now, 30 years later, I keep asking "is this a trap that I choose to remain in?" I still love programming, but it i…

Right out of college, I joined a startup and I learned alot. Then I joined a huge financial corporate company as a senior developer and find myself moving into more and more management roles. Having been in both worlds, I conclude that management is a trap, especially in your twenties and thirties.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#17

Post by scrozier » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:08 PM UTC

curun1r wrote: post #8

jgrahamc wrote: post #2

"Unlike Engelbart, I have re-tooled. I now work in JavaScript in the browser and on the server. I had to walk away from the codebase that I loved. I understood that the price of relevance is to give up fighting at some point and settle for a partial victory. I think I was right in the development environment I created. But right doesn't mean the world uses what you created." Yep. That's the key to staying relevant: c…

This. I see too many older developers who complain about ageism, but what's really going on is that they're essentially the same developer they were 2-3 years into their career. If you've been working in the industry for over 20 years, employers can and should expect that you've made the most of it. Those developers have very few problems with ageism. It's the ones that have become comfortable and stagnated that have…

I am 57 and quite current. I have launched several startups and kept fresh constantly. My current client has me doing lots of leading edge stuff that some of their younger devs couldn't do.

And yet I do feel the ageism. I understand it and I'm not angry about it, but it's real, nonetheless. It's not a good feeling.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#18

Post by derefr » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:11 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #9

jgrahamc wrote: post #2

"Unlike Engelbart, I have re-tooled. I now work in JavaScript in the browser and on the server. I had to walk away from the codebase that I loved. I understood that the price of relevance is to give up fighting at some point and settle for a partial victory. I think I was right in the development environment I created. But right doesn't mean the world uses what you created." Yep. That's the key to staying relevant: c…

For me, the thing that gets a bit discouraging at times is the feeling of riding a slow-motion merry-go-round. Every 10 years or so you see the same ideas start to come around again, only with some new paint and landscaping. I have found myself more than once thinking that learning about some new trendy buzzword is just ultimately a waste of time, since I will barely have mastered it before it's been replaced by the…

I see the same thing, but feel much more optimistic about it: it's not, in my mind, that tech is effectively fashion, but rather that there are "futurist" ideas that tech keeps trying and which keep not getting adoption, because it's not their time yet—the state of the art isn't there to make the experience for the average consumer (or the average developer) justify the costs.

An example of what I mean: the Apple Newton, and then 10 years later the Palm Pilot, and then 10 years later Windows CE and flip-phones supporting J2ME, and then 10 years later touchscreen phones and tablets. There have been four generations of "mobile app developers", but only the latest generation has seen any traction for their apps. This time the idea stuck; it will stay around, rather than coming around again.

If something like Paypal's prototype service (beaming money from one Palm Pilot to another) were set in this "revolution" of mobile instead of that one, it would be much more successful.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#19

Post by michaelangerman » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:11 PM UTC

I am 55 and have been programming computers since 1975 when I was 15 years old. Do the math, I have been programming now for 40 years. Recently, I had a conversation with someone else about this topic and I told them that I have never been so excited about my career, the field of computer science, and most importantly the opportunities that exist today in the field of technology. The excitement surrounding too many topics to list is amazing. I only hope and wish that I am able to stay healthy and continue programming to the day I die.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#20

Post by ebbv » Wed, May 06, 2015, 6:14 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #13

intrasight wrote: post #6

When I was a young man, a slightly older associate told me that "programming is a trap". What he meant is that if you are relatively smart, you can get a CS degree, get good at it, and go earn a fantastic income right out of school. I heard the words. I understood the words. I agreed with the words. Even now, 30 years later, I keep asking "is this a trap that I choose to remain in?" I still love programming, but it i…

A trap, compared to what? Is plumbing a trap? Is finance a trap? Is hairstyling a trap?

Exactly. How is this different from any other profession? Developers can be so myopic. The narcissism in our industry really drives me up the wall. The only other industry that is this way, that I've seen, is the entertainment industry. The denizens of which also seem to suffer from this idea that they are totally unique and none of the plebeian hordes can possibly relate to what they go through.