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Lee Kuan Yew, Founding Father and First Premier of Singapore, Dies at 91

nytimes.com

81–90 of 157 posts

Re: Lee Kuan Yew, Founding Father and First Premier of Singapore, Dies at 91

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in America, we can bitch about it and (mostly) not be jailed or murdered for it. Heck, sometimes, things even change for the better.

You can bitch about police corruption in Singapore -- rare as it is. The media isn't afraid to report, and the government isn't afraid to act. And sure, you can bitch about it in the USA -- common as it is. Except the media doesn't care (unless you have particularly compelling video footage) and the government is too scared to act.

Are you serious? Here's an actual case of corruption at a government-linked org in Singapore: in particular, look how three people making claims that later turned out to entirely factual were sued into apologizing, and the bubble only burst when the NKF made the mistake of suing somebody even better-connected to the establishment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Kidney_Foundation_Sin...

Re: Lee Kuan Yew, Founding Father and First Premier of Singapore, Dies at 91

#82
I haven't been in Singapore and have read very little on why Singapore is so successful.

Three of Four Asian Tigers (Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea) are more democratic/free and equal in prosperity comparing with Singapore.

IMHO, a great strategic port and super effective government are probably key reasons that power the its great achievements. I hope people don't consider quasi-dictatorship style of governing the cause of economic miracle.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew, Founding Father and First Premier of Singapore, Dies at 91

#83
post #77

Asshole's dead. Good riddance. Stole power on a platform of communism, moved to totalitarianism / familial nepotism, set up his 'wealthy, modern' state by money laundering for Burmese junta, struck up a cheap friendship with US (easy sale: naval positioning for the straits, cable taps on comms, aggressively purchasing regional comms providers in places like .au), did a PR job on .sg's great 'democracy'. His biography…

> set up his 'wealthy, modern' state by money laundering for Burmese junta D'oh! I've been wondering how Singapore's low-taxing government accumulated all the capital that it invested, and that answer is so obvious: they took it from people somewhere else . Would you mind pointing me to a book that fills in the details?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=singapore+launder+money+burmese+ju...

Re: Lee Kuan Yew, Founding Father and First Premier of Singapore, Dies at 91

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can bitch about police corruption in Singapore -- rare as it is. The media isn't afraid to report, and the government isn't afraid to act. And sure, you can bitch about it in the USA -- common as it is. Except the media doesn't care (unless you have particularly compelling video footage) and the government is too scared to act.

Are you serious? Here's an actual case of corruption at a government-linked org in Singapore: in particular, look how three people making claims that later turned out to entirely factual were sued into apologizing, and the bubble only burst when the NKF made the mistake of suing somebody even better-connected to the establishment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Kidney_Foundation_Sin...

Exception that proves the rule.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew, Founding Father and First Premier of Singapore, Dies at 91

#85
post #8

Lets not forget that Singapore executes a higher percentage of its population than any other country on earth and canes people slicing into flesh.

What wrong with caning? It's a much more effective punishment than a jail term. Pain is a strong negative reinforcement, while prison for career criminals feels more like home than freedom. It's drastically cheaper than a prison term. It prevents the contact with prison subculture/gangs. Additionally, it provides some restitution to victims, in the case of violent crimes.

I see no downsides.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew, Founding Father and First Premier of Singapore, Dies at 91

#86
post #82

I haven't been in Singapore and have read very little on why Singapore is so successful. Three of Four Asian Tigers (Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea) are more democratic/free and equal in prosperity comparing with Singapore. IMHO, a great strategic port and super effective government are probably key reasons that power the its great achievements. I hope people don't consider quasi-dictatorship style of governing th…

One trade policy that they followed that was identical to that of Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea was the suppression of the value of their currency by purchasing US treasuries. That gave a much needed boost to their exports and allowed them space to create an industrial ecosystem.

China did this too, later.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew, Founding Father and First Premier of Singapore, Dies at 91

#87
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the same thing for the UK. Yes, i do realize there are vast differences between immigration in the UK (or the west overall) and Singapore, but find that blaming class differences and/or the mistreatment of poor immigrants to policies is to simplify the issue.

>You could say the same thing for the UK. You really can't. There's no comparison to be made between the way Singapore treats Bangladeshis and the UK treats Poles.

Or the way the UK treats Bangladeshis for that matter.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew, Founding Father and First Premier of Singapore, Dies at 91

#88

Singapore is in for some seriously interesting times. Lee Kuan Yew did a masterful job of getting Singapore up to speed after independence, but like so many leaders over-identified with their nation, he overstayed his welcome. The Lee family's tentacles are firmly entrenched in the politics and businesses of Singapore, and while I hope they will have the common sense to tolerate the inevitable rise of the opposition…

Oh good god. As a Singaporean (who has worked in the opposition politics no less) I am sick and tired of Chee Soon Juan the megalomaniac who can't get basic economics right, being treated as our saviour. He is not.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew, Founding Father and First Premier of Singapore, Dies at 91

#89
post #11

One of the greatest leaders of modern times. Singapore was a backwater country with no natural resources when he came to power. It's since evolved into one of the primary economic hubs in Asia, with a higher per-capita GDP than her former colonizers, Great Britain. To transform a country in such short a time is nothing short of remarkable.

http://therealsingapore.com/content/why-are-frail-elderly-st...

This is kind of the equivalent of someone posting something from Breitbart or NYPost and saying "this is real news".

Re: Lee Kuan Yew, Founding Father and First Premier of Singapore, Dies at 91

#90

Singapore is in for some seriously interesting times. Lee Kuan Yew did a masterful job of getting Singapore up to speed after independence, but like so many leaders over-identified with their nation, he overstayed his welcome. The Lee family's tentacles are firmly entrenched in the politics and businesses of Singapore, and while I hope they will have the common sense to tolerate the inevitable rise of the opposition…

The opinion above was formed by living in Singapore for ~8 years and continuing to take an active interest in its affairs for the next 5. You're welcome to disagree, but please tell me why then instead of just downvoting...

I'm a Singaporean. I've worked in opposition politics. I'm going to be voting this year.

Here are a few thoughts:

- your understanding of the Lees in Singapore have no historical context. You cannot view his leadership in a vacuum. You cannot look at Singapore politics and say it needs a dash of 'Western liberalism & democracy' and proclaim Chee Soon Juan one of its administrators. LKY, and the Singapore of his time, was a product of the times. There is no other place like it.

- No other place like it: that at the point of independence, we could have become "either a Palestine or a Switzerland". He was prescient on that. Few other small states are sandwiched between two giants (India and China), few other small states are at the best spot of an important shipping route, and in that sense he — and Singapore — had a leg up

- The most successful opposition party in Singapore is the Worker's Party, a party which is nearly as old as the ruling party. They are just as organized, if not more, and they are gaining momentum and strength. Like Lee's party, they have no overwhelming 'ideology', it is about 'what works for Singapore'. Voters like that. Voters don't like SDP, and they don't like Chee. Singapore voters don't trust loose cannons, and I as someone who has been in the 'opposition' most of my life would rather vote for the PAP if it presented a better candidate than the opposition, which is usually the case.

- Odds are stacked against the opposition, that is true; but the odds are lowered now, Lee Hsien Loong is not his father and the media is not nearly as powerful now. I would say that other than the Worker's Party, every single opposition candidate and party is unelectable. God help us if they do. Personality cults and horrible politics. No ability to execute. Voters will not give them the benefit of the doubt; we do not see the 'ability to govern' in them, and that counts more than 'what party one is from'

- Throughout the land there is a profound sense of mourning. Even among the ones who have spent their lives on the fringes of Lee's Singapore. He was a lion, and Singapore will not be the same without him.

- It will not descend into chaos, it will not swing the popular vote for the opposition. My read is that the PAP will still be in majority power for then next two elections.

- In the meantime, the work that has to be done is about how we ensure that we are ready for a post-PAP future. The reality of post-LKY is upon us today, and that changes things. Rapid destruction of our institutions isn't the answer. The building of our capacity with our people, institutions and processes may be.

- In many ways, we are more ready than the world thinks for that future

- You'd think that well-educated well-travelled Singaporeans who have the world at their feet (can live and travel and work anywhere, pretty much) would immediately switch allegiances and vote in 'democratic figureheads'. We will not.

- That doesn't come from conservatism. It comes from a practical belief that these figureheads, like Chee, will be the end of Singapore as we know it — and that's not from believing the propaganda of the state. It comes from knowing that the Singapore model works, but needs tweaking; and that the situation you have described above isn't going to end well.

- After working on the ground for the opposition in the last elections, I believe Singapore voters are rational and no longer afraid.

- The odds are good, but the goods are odd. That's the Singaporean opposition right now.

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