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Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

lists.extropy.org

81–90 of 273 posts

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#81

The thing I don't understand is how circulating cryoprotectant chemicals through the brain doesn't destroy the tissue. How could anything other than blood safely circulate through the brain?

As long as pressure, osmotic balance, pH, etc are in balance then it's not going to cause cellular trauma per se.

Regardless of the fluid medium, a bigger problem is absence of oxygen is going to start the process of autolysis after cell death. Neurons are particularly vulnerable, which how people can become brain dead within 5-10 minutes under normal circumstances.

The even bigger problem is cellular damage from the freezing process. Proponents of this sort of thing would say the "cryoprotectant" chemicals vitrify, so the massive small scale trauma from ice crystal formation is prevented. I'm not sure anything has ever been reanimated after this process, nor do I foresee a technology capable of allowing it.

Finally, and maybe the biggest problem, it is hard to see technological cure for advanced ALS. It is a structure problem with demyelination causing the symptoms. Even if you could correct the underlying source of myelin cell death/inflammation, it's very difficult to imagine a restoration process that results in viable life.

Anyway, probably more than you wanted to hear. This is just kind of sad, and reminds me this is a young forum on the whole that probably isn't too in tune with their own mortality (this is not directed at anyone, so I'd prefer nobody respond personally to it). He is dead, he lived well, there will be nobody else quite like him.

edit: fyi, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_substitute (though again, this differs because the cryopreserving fluid is selected because of its properties when freezing)

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#82
post #50

Ancillary to the sad news, for a fictional treatment of cryopreservation (circa 1993) -- one that I couldn't help think about as I read that email/release -- Gregory Benford's novel, Chiller, works through many of the thought-provoking implications. http://www.gregorybenford.com/product/chiller/

Bujold's Cryoburn may also be of interest: http://www.baenebooks.com/chapters/1439133948/1439133948.htm...

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#83
post #7

On the topic of cryopreservation, to borrow a question from Scott Aaronson [1]: have you signed up for cryopreservation? And regardless of your answer, how do you defend yourself against the charge of irrationality? On one hand, it seems like a different version of Pascal's wager - if you can afford it, the upside is potentially far more beneficial than the downside. On the other hand, well, it is crazy... I can thin…

I signed up about five years ago. I outlined my reasons in a blog post[1].

Basically, I think it's more feasible than most people judge it to be. The technology has already been demonstrated in smaller structures such as rabbit kidneys. While it's not likely to work, the expected value is positive.

1. http://geoff.greer.fm/2010/07/09/insert-frozen-food-joke-her...

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I think most inquisitive folks and Sci-Fi nerds would pay anything to travel into the future (beyond a single lifetime).

If conciseness is in fact just an internal feeling/feedback loop, the revived you will feel as though this was achieved, but is the benefit to your present mind-state somewhat lost?

If you extrapolate this notion, which is something I have done and find an interesting theory, then consciousness is really a moment's event, like a processor's tick. Every tick you sense things, retrieve things from memory, and serialize a bunch more things into memory (including the working memory of say, a conscious movement you're doing right now.) The next moment another "you" comes along and lives that moment. To me it's the only point at which I can draw this line of "when is it no longer you?", as in being cloned with an exact brain snapshot, or sleeping at night, etc. You are only ever you for that single moment, so what difference is there between the revived you and the you a second from now? It's also a convenient belief in that I feel free to do teleportation when that becomes available (pulverize your body here, recreate your snapshot there.)

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that cryopreservation is the belief in the increasing rate of scientific progress (which can measured and proven), and that it is far more rational than the tens of millions of people who attend church every Saturday or Sunday in search of salvation for their soul. As /u/dublinben mentioned, I'd give my entire wealth to have the opportunity to live in the future.

On the other hand, you'll be living in the future, and probably unemployable since things will have evolved so much. Maybe everybody speaks something else other than English and even communicating is a pain (even with good translation resources) You'll know nobody. All the things that you know by "home" are gone. It'll probably be cool for the first weeks, then an absolute drag.

Yeah but if it is that bad the you could just kill yourself. The potential upside seems to outweigh the finality of death.

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#86
I didn't know Hal Finney, but condolences to his family.

Comparing different religions' various flavors of afterlife is very interesting, but perhaps this isn't the right forum for it (though maybe it is; I don't know). One thing is certain, though: cryonics's promise of an afterlife is definitely the most materially expensive of all religions -- on average, that is (some Christians spent what probably amounts to more than the cost of cryopreservation to expunge their sins). It is also the most strictly transactional since Catholicism prior to the reformation. The burial practice itself, however, bears a lot of resemblance to ancient Egyptian religion, and probably some other religions of antiquity.

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, you'll be living in the future, and probably unemployable since things will have evolved so much. Maybe everybody speaks something else other than English and even communicating is a pain (even with good translation resources) You'll know nobody. All the things that you know by "home" are gone. It'll probably be cool for the first weeks, then an absolute drag.

I think it'd be less of a drag than being nonexistent.

Maybe, but you won't mind not existing. You may mind it now, surely, but not at that time.

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#89
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time we have the technology to revive cryopatients, that question will likely be "why not?".

Maybe reviving will be easy, but IMO the real hangup is power costs. Keeping someone in cryo has regular upkeep costs. That complicates matters a lot.

Liquid Nitrogen is one of the cheapest fluids on the planet. Dewars are refilled every week. If the supply of LN was cut, the LN on each dewar would take months to evaporate -- And the patients are stored upside-down, so the head is the last thing to reach thermal equilibrium.

There is no electricity involved.

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#90
post #86

I didn't know Hal Finney, but condolences to his family. Comparing different religions' various flavors of afterlife is very interesting, but perhaps this isn't the right forum for it (though maybe it is; I don't know). One thing is certain, though: cryonics's promise of an afterlife is definitely the most materially expensive of all religions -- on average, that is (some Christians spent what probably amounts to mor…

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