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Goodbye, IPv4 IANA Starts Allocating Final Address Blocks

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Re: Goodbye, IPv4 IANA Starts Allocating Final Address Blocks

#81

Post by lambda »

wyager wrote: post #70
IgorPartola wrote: post #50

So there is a lot of sentiment that I've been hearing over time about when exactly will IPv6 become a thing. Here's how I see it: Step -1: We started running out of IPv4 addresses. The internet is IPv4-only for all practical purposes. Nobody is doing IPv6 because it's still experimental. Your weird neck-bearded friends are talking about it, that's about it. Step 0: Inception! IPv6 is now a standard and you can route…

> Sales of T-shirts with "There is no place like 127.0.0.1" drop dramatically. The nerdy t-shirt industry experiences a boost in margins, as they can now save ink by printing the much shorter "::1".

The sad part about IPv6 is that there's only one loopback address; ::1.

In IPv4, you have an entire /8 at your disposal, just for talking to yourself!

Re: Goodbye, IPv4 IANA Starts Allocating Final Address Blocks

#82

Post by lambda »

IgorPartola wrote: post #71
avis wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we currently in step 3? How much does a /24 running for right now?

We are between step 2 and 3. Looks like a /22 is $500 currently: https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html .

Hmm. I would argue that we're still in step -1, though the clean shaven folks have finally started listening to the neckbeards in a few circumstances and are slowly moving around towards step 0.

Most people still can't actually route IPv6 over their tubes without going through a tunnel broker. At least for home, small office, and companies that aren't tech heavy, it's still firmly in the neckbeard camp.

Re: Goodbye, IPv4 IANA Starts Allocating Final Address Blocks

#83

Post by IgorPartola »

lambda wrote: post #82
IgorPartola wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are between step 2 and 3. Looks like a /22 is $500 currently: https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html .

Hmm. I would argue that we're still in step -1, though the clean shaven folks have finally started listening to the neckbeards in a few circumstances and are slowly moving around towards step 0. Most people still can't actually route IPv6 over their tubes without going through a tunnel broker. At least for home, small office, and companies that aren't tech heavy, it's still firmly in the neckbeard camp.

Well, you definitely can route IPv6 over the public backbone. If you get an IPv6 address in SF and I get one in NYC, we can already talk to each other. That is how we got past step -1. Dual stack is now a pretty standard setup on a non-trivial, though still small number of networks. For example, Linode, Comcast, T-Mobile all support dual stack on at least some of their networks.

What we have not quite reached yet is the point where IPv4 addresses are really expensive. You still get one with every VPS you sign up for and with every home connection. Once that can no longer be done, IPv6 will become standard pretty much across the board, starting in Step 3 and 4.

Re: Goodbye, IPv4 IANA Starts Allocating Final Address Blocks

#84

Post by lambda »

fournm wrote: post #3

This is the recovered pool that's finally running out, so short of reclaiming something drastic like the class A block 10 (you know, a really really bad idea), dang. Anyone know what IPv6 adoption is looking like these days? Google is showing like 3% of their connections are native to it [1], which does not look promising. 1: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=ipv6...

You could never recover 10/8. Simply impossible. Due to the fact that IP address space is running out, 10/8 what everyone uses for NAT; how are you going to solve the address exhaustion problem by removing the main tool people are using to fight it?

Well before that, you could recover 18/8, MIT's prefix; how many addresses does a single university actually need, even MIT? Stanford already returned their /8 prefix. Or you could potentially recover a variety of DoD /8s, or start assigning some of the ones that are "reserved for future use" like 240/4.

Of course, an even better use of 240/4 would have been to use it as a backwards-compatible way to move to a larger address space. IPv6 should have been specified with IPv4 compatibility via NAT from the beginning, so that it could be a gradual migration. I mean, we're moving that way anyhow, but with a much more painful period in the middle in which NAT is necessary but IPv6 isn't ready yet for people who want to end the pain of NAT.

Re: Goodbye, IPv4 IANA Starts Allocating Final Address Blocks

#85

Post by simon_vetter »

lambda wrote: post #81
wyager wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sales of T-shirts with "There is no place like 127.0.0.1" drop dramatically. The nerdy t-shirt industry experiences a boost in margins, as they can now save ink by printing the much shorter "::1".

The sad part about IPv6 is that there's only one loopback address; ::1. In IPv4, you have an entire /8 at your disposal, just for talking to yourself!

Aside from ::/128 (undefined address) and ::1/128 (local loopback), the entirety of ::/96 was reserved for ipv4-compatible addresses and had been deprecated for a while [1]

It is safe to assume that they won't be allocated in the future. You can easily assign them to your loopback interface. e.g. on linux:

  $ ip addr add ::2/128 dev lo
You will then be able to use them over loopback just like ::1, and can populate your /etc/hosts file accordingly.

  $ ping6 -c 1 ::2
  PING ::2(::2) 56 data bytes
  64 bytes from ::2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.078 ms
  1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0ms
  rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.078/0.078/0.078/0.000 ms
[1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4291#section-4

EDIT: formatting.

Re: Goodbye, IPv4 IANA Starts Allocating Final Address Blocks

#86

Post by StephenFalken »

Steve Reeding, one of the creators of IPv6, shares his crucial insight on how some networks adapt, survive, and impose themselves [1]:

"I have a different take on that. Yes, a lot of people were dissing tunnels yesterday. I'm actually a big fan of tunnels. I think the way the IPv4 Internet was built originally was basically by tunneling over the phone system. Ignore, you know, getting leased lines, putting computers on the end, building a network with no cooperation at all from the phone company. In fact, I once saw a phone company memo that referred to the Internet as a 'hostile overlay'. You know, and we basically, you know, demolished their billing plans and everything, and built this network in spite of the desires of the carriers. And, as I see the IPv4 Internet getting more and more like the phone company, I thought one way to deploy IPv6 is basically tunnel over all that junk. Iterate the same thing again. And I gather, you know, some people, you know, who are concerned about this are looking at other ways of sort evolving the Internet, where you, you know, tunnel over HTTP or whatever you have to do to basically get over all that cruft and build a new network on top of it. So that, to me, was one possible way, you know, as the IPv4 Internet rotted the underneath. We would tunnel over it and then we would throw away the rotted bits and replace them with wires."

[1] "Internet as a 'Hostile Overlay'" -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwRVNwa6nJc#t=11m07s

Re: Goodbye, IPv4 IANA Starts Allocating Final Address Blocks

#87

Post by AnthonyMouse »

lambda wrote: post #84
fournm wrote: post #3

This is the recovered pool that's finally running out, so short of reclaiming something drastic like the class A block 10 (you know, a really really bad idea), dang. Anyone know what IPv6 adoption is looking like these days? Google is showing like 3% of their connections are native to it [1], which does not look promising. 1: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=ipv6...

You could never recover 10/8. Simply impossible. Due to the fact that IP address space is running out, 10/8 what everyone uses for NAT; how are you going to solve the address exhaustion problem by removing the main tool people are using to fight it? Well before that, you could recover 18/8, MIT's prefix; how many addresses does a single university actually need, even MIT? Stanford already returned their /8 prefix. Or…

> start assigning some of the ones that are "reserved for future use" like 240/4.

The 240 block is problematic because a huge amount of legacy routing equipment is hard-coded to blackhole it. The best thing for it is probably to reserve it for unspecified local use, which would allow you to use it to NAT IPv6 addresses into locally, or use as additional RFC1918-style address space, or as ORCHID-style address space for IPv4-only applications using the likes of cjdns, etc.

Re: Goodbye, IPv4 IANA Starts Allocating Final Address Blocks

#88

Post by mineo »

IgorPartola wrote: post #52
sneak wrote: post #47

It would be nice if certain websites we all use every day supported v6 better... firstmillion:~▻ host -t AAAA news.ycombinator.com news.ycombinator.com has no AAAA record firstmillion:~▻ host -t AAAA twitter.com twitter.com has no AAAA record firstmillion:~▻ host -t AAAA cloud-images.ubuntu.com cloud-images.ubuntu.com has no AAAA record firstmillion:~▻ host -t AAAA ubuntu.com ubuntu.com has no AAAA record ...

It sure would be. Here's a list that does: http://www.worldipv6launch.org/participants/?q=1 BTW, there is a nifty Chrome extension that tells you whether the site is doing IPv4 or IPv6. Always nice to see a green 6 in the address bar.

In case anyone's interested, the Chrome extensions is IPvFoo [0], a similar one for firefox is IPvFox [1].

[0] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ipvfoo/ecanpcehffn... [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/ipvfox/

Re: Goodbye, IPv4 IANA Starts Allocating Final Address Blocks

#89

Post by drewcrawford »

freehunter wrote: post #40
derekp7 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there were sites / protocols that everyone wanted, which could only be reachable by IPv6. Maybe a new file sharing protocol, which uses the vast IPv6 address space to hide better, or something like that.

Isn't it standard for 4G to give out IPv6? If everyone switched, we'd all have IPv6.

No. "LTE does not require or even help IPv6 deployment." http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/v6ops/current/msg15116....

Re: Goodbye, IPv4 IANA Starts Allocating Final Address Blocks

#90

Post by jacquesm »

StephenFalken wrote: post #86

Steve Reeding, one of the creators of IPv6, shares his crucial insight on how some networks adapt, survive, and impose themselves [1]: "I have a different take on that. Yes, a lot of people were dissing tunnels yesterday. I'm actually a big fan of tunnels. I think the way the IPv4 Internet was built originally was basically by tunneling over the phone system. Ignore, you know, getting leased lines, putting computers…

That's a very interesting view and the closest thing that I've seen to date for a practical, workable solution to the current mess.

I really like that.

How are RBLs and other useful internet institutions that work on the basis of IPv4 addresses along the way with their IPv6 adoption?

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