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With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

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Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#81

Post by beagle3 »

csense wrote: post #57
beagle3 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your interest and Microsoft's interests haven't been aligned in years. Your interest is to keep an OS supported. Microsoft's interest is to release Browser and DirectX updates only for the latest-and-greatest, so that you'd updgrade. Your interest is an open ecosystem. Microsoft's interest is to have a closed garden. (They haven't been successful with that one, but they're trying). Your interest might be a usable Des…

> Microsoft's interest is to ram their touch interface down your throat so that you'd get used to it, and your next phone may possibly run Windows s/Microsoft/Canonical/ s/Windows/Ubuntu/

True.

Except ... I'm not paying Ubuntu for my desktop OS; and I would for my server, except they're taking it where I don't want it to go, so I don't.

And ... if you don't like Ubuntu's Unity (many people don't), Gnome, KDE, Enlightenment and ten other desktop environments are basically an apt-get away.

Remind me, what was the command to get rid of The-UI-formerly-known-as-Metro and use the desktop instead?

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#82

Post by laumars »

This isn't really as big news as it sounds as MS have often heavily subsidized Windows for OEMs abd such like when they've needed to compete in other markets (Eg when XP was initially losing out to Linux on nettops). And they've shown that they're happy to run flagship consumer products at a loss just to raise adoption (Eg the original Xbox).

So it seems to me to be quite typical for then to drop the cost of a product like this when they're struggling to push said product. And who can blame them, it's a fairly standard practice outside of IT as well, and it's not like MS don't have the funds to do run at a loss for several years either (though I expect they'll easily have this cost offset anyway)

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#83

Post by fit2rule »

stan_rogers wrote: post #69
ekianjo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If only Microsoft can make Windows affordable, they can kill all competitors instantly. Yeah maybe for the consumers market, but that's already the case with Piracy anyway. But price is not the only issue, Windows is just horrible in so many ways that there's a number of people who will not come back to it even if it's 100% free. I keep Windows (7) as dual-boot on my desktop PC, where I run OpenSuse most of the tim…

You may be amazed at how much "really have to" covers for a lot of people. There are not nix-based versions for much of the software that people actually use (unless you stretch things far enough to include OS X in the "well, that's nix" category, ignoring the specific requirement to run OS X). The world isn't all about futzing with code and using browsers.

>The world isn't all about futzing with code and using browsers.

And neither is Linux/FOSS.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#84

Post by brudgers »

skrebbel wrote: post #15

As a Microsoft customer, this alienates me from them. Paid software means that our interests are aligned: I want good software and Microsoft wants to make good software so that I buy it. Free commercial software means that I'll have to pay through other means, typically means that I'll have less control over.

My take is that Microsoft is shifting its consumer strategy away from expressing core B2B values and toward the you are the product model loved by Wall Street and used by Apple and Google and Facebook and just about everyone else.

It's part of the generational shift and the radical change to ownership and thereby control that is underway. Gates and Ballmer are divesting their shares and that means that the new Microsoft has to make Wall Street analysts happy in a way that a company whose CEO and Chairman are the two largest shareholders doesn't.

The writing was on the wall with Windows 8. It wanted persistent login to Microsoft servers and to produce tailored content via persistent tracking. Whatever doubt I had was gone when Windows 8.1 rolled back my choice of local login without asking and buried the means of changing deeper than before. Topping it off was that 8.1 ignored the fact that the login name I entered as default was the valid local login I had used to start installation.

I've been using MS operating systems since DOS 3.3. The first version of Windows I worked with was 2.0 [only for a customized workflow on an Amiga 2000 with bridgeboard, though]. It's been Windows full time since 3.0 because I've never felt that Microsoft's approach was caveat emptor.

Now I can't say that. I fear they are becoming like everyone else.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#85

Post by fit2rule »

nsmartt wrote: post #74
stan_rogers wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be amazed at how much "really have to" covers for a lot of people. There are not nix-based versions for much of the software that people actually use (unless you stretch things far enough to include OS X in the "well, that's nix" category, ignoring the specific requirement to run OS X). The world isn't all about futzing with code and using browsers.

I've used GNU/Linux for around 3 years. The only way I could even consider using Windows again would be with cygwin. The programs I use on a daily basis don't have easily available counterparts for Windows. It very much goes both ways.

I also haven't used Windows as my main OS in over a decade. I only ever use it when I absolutely have to - and these days, the list of reasons is dwindling and diminishing at a great pace.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#86

Post by gdrulia »

ekianjo wrote: post #73
adamnemecek wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows is just horrible in so many ways Care to enumerate a couple?

I think I did: lack of reactivity between the time you click on something and something actually occurs on screen (talking about OS feel in general), same applications running much slower on Windows, higher general memory consumption, extreme sluggishness when running multiple applications in parallel, extensive usage of scratch disks while OpenSuse seems to be able to use RAM more effectively...

I don't know, maybe it is only my experience, but I have tried Ubuntu quite a few times over the last years, on three different machines, and every single time I experienced problems, especially GPU related, speed is always an issue as well. Just try to search for something in Ubuntu and it just doesn't feel responsive. I'm in no way saying that windows is a better platform, but if you have enough RAM, it is a fast OS.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#87

Post by pekru »

kamaal wrote: post #34

Actually a free Windows OS would actually be great. Here in India, Pirated Windows OS are like as common as mosquitoes. No one but Microsoft was losing in all this. The price of Windows is generally prohibitively high and was by no way affordable to home and even small business users. The only option was to pirate them or use Ubuntu. People walk in to buy a laptop, check the difference in price for Laptops with Windo…

> Actually a free Windows OS would actually be great. Here in India, Pirated Windows OS are like as common as mosquitoes. No one but Microsoft was losing in all this.

Actually, MS knew all along that piracy is rampant and they let it work for them quite well. With everyone familiarizing themselves with nothing other than MS products, MS knew for a fact that money would eventually come, in sacks that too. It wasn't a loss in the long term.

Markets like China and India are different wherein enforcement is not that easy. Heck, proper enforcement would even make people opt for a hassle free and priceless option like *nix. So MS chose not to bother too much about piracy in domestic installations and thus sorta sent a message like "go on, use it, we don't care" and fueled piracy to an extent, if I may say.

For an average consumer in India, computers are synonymous with Windows products. It's not a choice for them at all, they do not have a choice!

Even the local coke/hash peddler would give out stuff for free to get one hooked. ;)

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#88

Post by zvrba »

shmerl wrote: post #68
neolefty wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even that. The fear of unpatched XP! If they can get all those unlicensed XP users to upgrade, it will be a huge win for everybody. Microsoft wins because the albatross of XP will be off their PR necks. Every unpatched security hole will still look bad, even if they gave people years of warning. Users win because (hopefully) they are using a better OS.

That's not going to help. Many Windows users don't upgrade not because they fear the price of Windows 8, but because they can't stand it and prefer XP, as simple as that. The only way MS can actually help them is not by making Windows 8 free (as in beer), but for example by open sourcing XP. They might do that when they'll get really desperate, but I don't think they are there yet.

> That's not going to help. Many Windows users don't upgrade not because they fear the price of Windows 8, but because they can't stand it and prefer XP, as simple as that.

Or they don't want to bother with buying new hardware. A friend of mine is still using her 10-year old laptop with 1GB memory and XP. And it works just fine for her purposes (web browsing, gmail, little office).

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#89

Post by delian66 »

cbhl wrote: post #11
mappu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you script all those common installers that are (a) not an msi, (b) don't have a /SILENT switch or other unattended installation, (c) require license input, or any combination thereof? I guess you could use AutoHotkey to simulate mouse clicks, or attempt to repackage the software yourself. But when comparing the ability to script installations in general, linux has a major, major advantage.

Repacking all the software yourself so that you can automate the installation of packages is hardly what I'd consider a solution. In practice, people use drive images of Windows, or Ninite, or pay the neighbourhood PFK $12/hr to "automate" it.

What is neighbourhood PFK ?

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#90

Post by ubercow13 »

ekianjo wrote: post #73
adamnemecek wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows is just horrible in so many ways Care to enumerate a couple?

I think I did: lack of reactivity between the time you click on something and something actually occurs on screen (talking about OS feel in general), same applications running much slower on Windows, higher general memory consumption, extreme sluggishness when running multiple applications in parallel, extensive usage of scratch disks while OpenSuse seems to be able to use RAM more effectively...

I find it hard to believe something else isn't going on because some of those things are the exact opposite of my experience. Firefox has always been more responsive on Windows. Its acceleration architecture is still more advanced on Windows. In fact, everything is more responsive and opens faster on Windows. The scheduler is way better for desktop use. Windows never becomes unresponsive for me because of background applications even though I have the scheduler set to prioritise background processes, whereas even quite recently on Linux I have still found compiling or such in the background can lead to X temporarily becoming unresponsive. Windows is certainly leagues more stable than KDE (if that's what you're using). In fact no part of Windows has crashed for me in years.

These are just my experiences. I have other problems with Linux on the desktop too mainly relating to GPU stuff. Personally, while I love many aspects of Linux on the desktop and use my Linux VM all the time, I would say I still find the overall experience to be "just deplorable"

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