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With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

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Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#61

Post by sliverstorm »

RyanZAG wrote: post #36
skrebbel wrote: post #15

As a Microsoft customer, this alienates me from them. Paid software means that our interests are aligned: I want good software and Microsoft wants to make good software so that I buy it. Free commercial software means that I'll have to pay through other means, typically means that I'll have less control over.

Microsoft is a business. Their interests and your interests have never and will never be aligned. They may occasionally release products which can solve your needs - but their interest in this case is to extract the maximum amount of money from you in exchange for solving your need. Solving the need has never been an explicit interest in itself. Moving to an advertising based pricing model doesn't change any alignmen…

Their interests and our interest may not have been aligned, but at least the user was the customer. In an ad supported model, the advertiser is the customer, the users are the product, and the software is the bait. We've already seen where that gets us.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#62

Post by ekianjo »

RyanZAG wrote: post #36
skrebbel wrote: post #15

As a Microsoft customer, this alienates me from them. Paid software means that our interests are aligned: I want good software and Microsoft wants to make good software so that I buy it. Free commercial software means that I'll have to pay through other means, typically means that I'll have less control over.

Microsoft is a business. Their interests and your interests have never and will never be aligned. They may occasionally release products which can solve your needs - but their interest in this case is to extract the maximum amount of money from you in exchange for solving your need. Solving the need has never been an explicit interest in itself. Moving to an advertising based pricing model doesn't change any alignmen…

> Microsoft is a business. Their interests and your interests have never and will never be aligned. They may occasionally release products which can solve your needs - but their interest in this case is to extract the maximum amount of money from you in exchange for solving your need. Solving the need has never been an explicit interest in itself.

You can say the same thing for every business then. I don't think you see it in the proper light. A business is a for profit organization. It does not mean it does not strive to provide valuable services. Actually, you'll see that when companies actually evolve in a relatively free market (i.e. which is not the case of Windows since it's installed by default on most PCs), companies actually compete to provide better service to their customers in order to maximize their profits. There are many cases where consumers interests and companies interests CAN be aligned.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#63

Post by sliverstorm »

zdw wrote: post #7

And I'll bet part of the license will say, "Can't be run in a virtual machine", to prevent people from using it in combination with VirtualBox to run Windows Apps for free. Because I'd sure as heck do that and replace hundreds of licensing seats worth of RDP as well as old XP VM's.

Well, naturally. Microsoft wants to compete in the consumer space. Windows Apps is not consumer, it is enterprise, and they are doing alright there.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#64

Post by neolefty »

shmerl wrote: post #26

The fear of Linux took them at last.

Not even that. The fear of unpatched XP! If they can get all those unlicensed XP users to upgrade, it will be a huge win for everybody.

Microsoft wins because the albatross of XP will be off their PR necks. Every unpatched security hole will still look bad, even if they gave people years of warning.

Users win because (hopefully) they are using a better OS.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#65

Post by sliverstorm »

zaidf wrote: post #27

I miss the Microsoft that was known for making solid products that could have a 5-10 year shelf life. It is sad that Office 2007 works better for me than Office 2010; Windows 7 better than Windows 8.

Their products get better with age. XP SP2 was a totally different beast from XP. Vista was improved a lot post-launch, and so was Windows 7. I still remember when Office 2007 was "buggy and slow" compared to Office 2003, but today no one runs 2003 anymore and 2007 is the reliable standard. Windows 8.1 has improved on Windows 8. So, give it time.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#66

Post by csense »

beagle3 wrote: post #23
bifftannen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can script the OS and application install with WDS, SCCM, and AD. Just because you can't or won't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

That's almost funny. I was too lazy to do things properly (kickstart script, etc.) so I have a bash script with about 10 "apt-get install" lines that set up everything I want on Ubuntu or debian, and a few more "echo" lines that configure 90% of my other preferences. 50 line scripts that contain very little other than the names of the programs I want or the configuration I want. Let's say I just got a new computer wi…

> Care to list the steps needed to get into your favorite state

Well, first you have to figure out how the screen capture API for Windows. Then you have to take screenshots of each screen of the installer program of each application you have to run. Write image recognition code to figure out the location of each button on each tab of each installer screen. Then delve further into the Windows API's to write code to inject mouse movements or keystrokes to make the installations happen.

Oh, and if you're using this with a newer version of Windows that uses a different font, or slightly different styling for buttons, or has different UAC dialogs, you're totally hosed. Ditto if any of the installers releases a new version, you may have to make changes.

This example demonstrates a command line interface's obvious, inherent, even self-evident superiority to any GUI. Why anyone puts up with the GUI at all is beyond me. It took me ten years to figure out how to get anything done in the GUI when Windows 95 was released; before that, I used the command line pretty much exclusively for moving/copying files and the like.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#67

Post by Perdition »

nivla wrote: post #39
beagle3 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your interest and Microsoft's interests haven't been aligned in years. Your interest is to keep an OS supported. Microsoft's interest is to release Browser and DirectX updates only for the latest-and-greatest, so that you'd updgrade. Your interest is an open ecosystem. Microsoft's interest is to have a closed garden. (They haven't been successful with that one, but they're trying). Your interest might be a usable Des…

>Your interest is an open ecosystem. Microsoft's interest is to have a closed garden. (They haven't been successful with that one, but they're trying). I might get some heat for this but I must say Windows is still the OS with the least closed garden or heck even a garden. To get even the legitimate and popular x86 applications you still have to manually browse to websites and download it. You can install whatever yo…

There is nothing wrong with a touch UI, the issue was trying to force the touch UI on all users.

Which funnily enough was done to aid them in creating enough demand for their app store to become a player in the closed garden model. If it had worked I bet Win 9 would have been closed garden by default, with a special edition for enterprises.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#68

Post by shmerl »

neolefty wrote: post #64
shmerl wrote: post #26

The fear of Linux took them at last.

Not even that. The fear of unpatched XP! If they can get all those unlicensed XP users to upgrade, it will be a huge win for everybody. Microsoft wins because the albatross of XP will be off their PR necks. Every unpatched security hole will still look bad, even if they gave people years of warning. Users win because (hopefully) they are using a better OS.

That's not going to help. Many Windows users don't upgrade not because they fear the price of Windows 8, but because they can't stand it and prefer XP, as simple as that. The only way MS can actually help them is not by making Windows 8 free (as in beer), but for example by open sourcing XP. They might do that when they'll get really desperate, but I don't think they are there yet.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#69

Post by stan_rogers »

ekianjo wrote: post #55
kamaal wrote: post #34

Actually a free Windows OS would actually be great. Here in India, Pirated Windows OS are like as common as mosquitoes. No one but Microsoft was losing in all this. The price of Windows is generally prohibitively high and was by no way affordable to home and even small business users. The only option was to pirate them or use Ubuntu. People walk in to buy a laptop, check the difference in price for Laptops with Windo…

> If only Microsoft can make Windows affordable, they can kill all competitors instantly. Yeah maybe for the consumers market, but that's already the case with Piracy anyway. But price is not the only issue, Windows is just horrible in so many ways that there's a number of people who will not come back to it even if it's 100% free. I keep Windows (7) as dual-boot on my desktop PC, where I run OpenSuse most of the tim…

You may be amazed at how much "really have to" covers for a lot of people. There are not nix-based versions for much of the software that people actually use (unless you stretch things far enough to include OS X in the "well, that's nix" category, ignoring the specific requirement to run OS X). The world isn't all about futzing with code and using browsers.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#70

Post by adamnemecek »

ekianjo wrote: post #55
kamaal wrote: post #34

Actually a free Windows OS would actually be great. Here in India, Pirated Windows OS are like as common as mosquitoes. No one but Microsoft was losing in all this. The price of Windows is generally prohibitively high and was by no way affordable to home and even small business users. The only option was to pirate them or use Ubuntu. People walk in to buy a laptop, check the difference in price for Laptops with Windo…

> If only Microsoft can make Windows affordable, they can kill all competitors instantly. Yeah maybe for the consumers market, but that's already the case with Piracy anyway. But price is not the only issue, Windows is just horrible in so many ways that there's a number of people who will not come back to it even if it's 100% free. I keep Windows (7) as dual-boot on my desktop PC, where I run OpenSuse most of the tim…

> Windows is just horrible in so many ways

Care to enumerate a couple?

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