Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 168 posts

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#81

Post by nostromo »

revelation wrote: post #70

It's just completely surreal driving a bicycle in car traffic. The vast majority of car drivers simply lack the moral character and should not ever be allowed to drive such dangerous machinery. Cycle paths are optional here, and I very regularly opt out of driving on them because they are in a constant state of disarray, had snow and glass shoved on them, are too close to parking cars or end abruptly, forcing me to m…

You're playing with fire here.

You might be right, but being right and dead is cold comfort.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#83

Post by jbl »

tsotha wrote: post #12

>So here’s my proposal: Every time you get on a bike, from this moment forward, obey the letter of the law in every traffic exchange everywhere... Hahahahaha. I see a flaw in this plan. I don't see why the author views a lack of criminal charges as evidence of some kind of travesty of justice. If a cyclist gets run down by someone who didn't see him, that's an accident, not a crime.

The problem is that "I didn't see the cyclist" becomes a catch-all excuse that law-enforcement takes at face value. This leads to an implicit (though not acknowledged or stated) assumption that a driver cannot be at fault in a driver/cyclist ahem interaction.

I commute to work by bike every day, and every day I watch drivers with their heads down texting, fiddling with the radio, spaced out, or just plain aggressive. If one of these people hit me due to their inattention or actions, I'm pretty sure most police officers (and juries) would just assume accident. In a lot of cases, the incident wouldn't even be investigated.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#84

Post by nick2 »

MikusR wrote: post #66
nick2 wrote: post #28

I don't understand how people can ride bicycles on public roads along side cars and trucks. The average driver is highly incompetent. Most people don't get proper training how to drive. A lot of people are very distracted with talking on cell phones or eating while driving. Heavy objects moving at high speeds can be very dangerous.

I don't understand how people can walk on public sidewalks along bicyclists that ignore all traffic rules and drive wherever they like. The average cyclist is highly incompetent. Most people don't get any training at all. A lot of people are very distracted with talking on cell phones or listening to music with headphones while cycling. Bicycles moving at high speeds can be very dangerous to pedestrians that are walk…

It is illegal to ride bikes on sidewalks in a lot of cities.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#85

Post by rgrieselhuber »

dmm wrote: post #61
rgrieselhuber wrote: post #37

The author makes all of the relevant points. When I first moved to SV, I bought a nice bike and rode it around for awhile. Then I started to notice the utter lack of attention to cyclists, even those such as myself who rode with a helmet and obeyed all of the traffic laws. You're just invisible. Now in SF, I see the same problem with drivers but I also see cyclists acting generally like assholes, ignoring traffic law…

When you have an environment that only assholes will tolerate, only assholes will inhabit it. Can you imagine grandmas and schools kids riding their bikes in urban traffic?

No argument on the environment, and no I can't.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#86

Post by crbnw00ts »

kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

Bike safety starts with the rider. One of the scariest experiences I ever had while driving a car was nearly hitting a cyclist as I was pulling out of a parking lot. He was riding at night with no lights or reflectors visible. Oh, and he was wearing 100% dark clothing too. This was in an area with very little street lighting. He was basically invisible to me until he got extremely close. Fortunately I saw him in time and stopped, but to this day it still makes my heart race a little bit to think about it.

Before anyone jumps on me for not seeing it from the cyclist's perspective, I spent several years commuting by bicycle, frequently going home after dark. During that time, I made damn sure I had enough lights and reflectors for car drivers to see me. I was never under the impression that basic safety was anyone's responsibility but my own.

That of course doesn't mean that there aren't car drivers out there who are careless around cyclists, but cyclists themselves have to take the first steps, such as making sure you are visible to everyone around you, (including avoiding getting into other people's blind spots), and above all maintaing awareness and caution at all times. I realize I probably sound like a school teacher, but they say these sorts of things for a reason. A cyclist with cavalier, reckless, or lackadaisical attitude towards safety is an accident waiting to happen.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#87

Post by hetman »

FreakyT wrote: post #75
revelation wrote: post #70

It's just completely surreal driving a bicycle in car traffic. The vast majority of car drivers simply lack the moral character and should not ever be allowed to drive such dangerous machinery. Cycle paths are optional here, and I very regularly opt out of driving on them because they are in a constant state of disarray, had snow and glass shoved on them, are too close to parking cars or end abruptly, forcing me to m…

You've answered your own question. Why would people be upset when you've ignored the lane provided for you and instead decided to slow traffic to a grinding halt by taking up an entire lane? Certainly, it's unfortunate that the bike lane is poorly maintained, but to wholly place the blame on the drivers strikes me as questionable.

Because the bike paths are unsafe. Frankly cyclists usually annoy me, but he's following the law, and probably better than most of the self entitled idiots in cars who get by with the VERY minimum of safety awareness on the road.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#88

Post by 3825 »

fphhotchips wrote: post #68
3825 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pedestrians alike just aren't looking You mentioned you obey the law so you probably don't do this. Even if the law does not prohibit riding on the sidewalk, you should never ride on the sidewalk. Just wanted to take this time to remind everyone that bicycles do not belong on the sidewalk.

I disagree. Bicycles belong on sidewalks far more than they belong on roads. That said, perhaps it's situational. My city has large amounts of arterial roads with heavy car traffic and sparse pedestrians. The speed limit on those roads is about 60 kph (about 40 mph), and I much prefer to stay off them as a cyclist. It would be much safer if I was allowed to cycle on the sidewalk in those areas, as there's little to n…

One of the first things my driving instructor taught me is that you have to assert your right. A measly bicycle has as much right to be on the road as a Cadillac Escalade. At the risk of preaching to the choir, a bicycle should take up a full lane on the road unless there is a special bicycle lane.

I am not saying go crazy and ride your bicycles on freeways. This is more about city streets. That being said, I truly believe the way to have fewer cars striking cyclists is to have more cyclists assert themselves on the road.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#89

Post by kyledrake »

FreakyT wrote: post #75
revelation wrote: post #70

It's just completely surreal driving a bicycle in car traffic. The vast majority of car drivers simply lack the moral character and should not ever be allowed to drive such dangerous machinery. Cycle paths are optional here, and I very regularly opt out of driving on them because they are in a constant state of disarray, had snow and glass shoved on them, are too close to parking cars or end abruptly, forcing me to m…

You've answered your own question. Why would people be upset when you've ignored the lane provided for you and instead decided to slow traffic to a grinding halt by taking up an entire lane? Certainly, it's unfortunate that the bike lane is poorly maintained, but to wholly place the blame on the drivers strikes me as questionable.

FreakyT, if I ever see you in the street, I'm going to run you over for getting in my way.

And it will be called an accident.

I do not understand why it is so hard for people to understand this problem, but I've given up hope ever describing it in Internet comments. In the interim, if you ever want to get away with murder, use a car.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#90

Post by YZF »

Story 1

I was on my motorcycle on the left lane in a city when a car way ahead of me just plowed into a bicycle riding on the side of the road ahead of it as if it wasn't there. The car driver was dreaming or sleeping- I don't know. The bicycle rider, an elderly person, almost went through the windshield. Me and some others stopped to help. Luckily he survived.

Story 2

When I grew up I was on my bicycle all the time. I was one of the cyclists you may see disobeying traffic rules but I never did it in any dangerous way, to myself or to traffic around me. I had zero encounters involving cars though I did have a few scary falls involving myself doing stupid stuff. This is over years of riding every day.

The point I am trying to make here is that treating a bicycle like a car is stupid. It's almost as stupid as saying pedestrians should walk on the road, stop at stop signs, change lanes when they want to turn, and stop at traffic lights. Bicycles sit somewhere between pedestrians and motorized traffic, they're not one and they're not the other.

These days I am very careful about where and how I ride my bicycle. This is because I don't have that sixth sense anymore of what's going on around me as I don't ride as much and I also don't live in the same place. New riders in a new environment should be very very careful. I will often prefer to ride on an empty sidewalk to riding on the road as the odds of getting mowed down are much lower (but watch out for cars zooming out of driveways). As a driver I give plenty of room to cyclists, if I can I move out of their lane, because I know that a bicycle may simply move into my path at any point and I know how hard it is for a cyclist to hold a line perfectly over a length of time.

Adding another thought here: It seems car drivers these days are more isolated from what goes on around them for various reasons. I see this even in myself as my car is better insulated and there are more distractions (GPS, phone, etc). This is yet another problem in sharing the road.

Post reply on HN