Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#21

Post by rcthompson » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 10:19 PM UTC

tsotha wrote: post #16

rcthompson wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must not have read the article, because that's definitely not the TL;DR. Sentences like this tell a very different story: > We do not know of a single case of a cyclist fatality in which the driver was prosecuted, except for D.U.I. or hit-and-run. That sure sounds to me like society has de facto decided "It's OK to kill cyclists as long as you aren't drunk and you stick around to apologize afterward."

Or society has de facto decided there's no point in sending someone to jail for a legitimate accident.

So you're saying that 100% of collisions between cars and bikes are either the cyclist's fault or "legitimate accidents", and 0% are the motorist's fault?

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#22

Post by desireco42 » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 10:20 PM UTC

From my local Chicago experience and we got Divvy recently, woohoo ! cyclists are the one who are reckless and endangering other traffic participants.

Obviously not all, but essentially driving bicycle is simply activity for which traffic laws were not made, it is hard to stop and go on the bicycle etc. Having cyclists whiz by you while you drive is often unexpected.

So there. Until we get something like Bogota, Colombia, these things will happen.

Did I mention we have Divvy in Chicago :)

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#23

Post by kika » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 10:20 PM UTC

dmm wrote: post #15

ck2 wrote: post #3

The US has always had a horrible "you are on your own mentality". I mean, over a hundred kids have been killed by gun rampages in schools over the past several years and nothing has changed. Oh wait, no MORE guns have been made legal and available, not less. So basically the American public becomes trained to be desensitized to deaths, cyclists, schoolkids, drunk driving, etc.

Are you suggesting that banning cars is an appropriate response to cyclists being hit by cars?

I can't resist the urge: responsible government should still allow people to use cars, but full-auto cars should be banned! :-)

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#24

Post by dmm » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 10:20 PM UTC

thetrb wrote: post #11

Are there any statistics what happens to drivers at fault that kill another car driver? What would be the "best" outcome in these cases? Do you want to throw someone in jail for making an unintentional mistake? Should there just be a civil lawsuit where either the driver or the insurance pays to the victim's family? I don't have an answer to that, just asking for opinions.

> Are there any statistics what happens to drivers at fault that kill another car driver?

I would argue that cyclists are different because they are much more vulnerable than other vehicles and the law should reflect that fact.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#25

Post by arjie » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 10:22 PM UTC

thetrb wrote: post #11

Are there any statistics what happens to drivers at fault that kill another car driver? What would be the "best" outcome in these cases? Do you want to throw someone in jail for making an unintentional mistake? Should there just be a civil lawsuit where either the driver or the insurance pays to the victim's family? I don't have an answer to that, just asking for opinions.

I don't know about jail, but I find it hard to believe that people who have demonstrated incompetence with a motor vehicle, fatal incompetence, are allowed to drive.

Anyway, there really is only one long term solution: exclusive roads for non-pedestrian, non-motor vehicles. We should aim to solve these problems by making it hard for people to have them. I don't think a punishment deterrent really works in situations like these. Most people drive in a switched off mode, and they aren't going to change.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#26

Post by kika » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 10:22 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #20

kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

scratch off point d. Helmets don't really do anything to protect you unless you practically fall off your bike standing still. I've seen brains on the street from at least two low-speed bike accidents where the cyclist was wearing a helmet. Also, it's not that all cyclists are disobeying the law. Those are just the ones you choose to see. Drivers and pedestrians alike just aren't looking. I always obey traffic laws o…

this guy got injured right where thickest part of the standard styrofoam helmet is. About half way above the eyebrow to the temple. He survived (but there was a lot of blood) but with the helmet he'd walked from the scene with a few scratches on his knees.

I'm not saying "all". But I drive about 400 miles per week (long commute) and I can say that I've seen approximately 5 bicyclist last month which stopped at the stop sign. They really stand out of the crowd.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#27

Post by scotty79 » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 10:22 PM UTC

dmm wrote: post #15

ck2 wrote: post #3

The US has always had a horrible "you are on your own mentality". I mean, over a hundred kids have been killed by gun rampages in schools over the past several years and nothing has changed. Oh wait, no MORE guns have been made legal and available, not less. So basically the American public becomes trained to be desensitized to deaths, cyclists, schoolkids, drunk driving, etc.

Are you suggesting that banning cars is an appropriate response to cyclists being hit by cars?

Sort of. Wherever there are two lanes or more, cars should be banned on rightmost one that should be separated with some concrete blocks.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#28

Post by nick2 » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 10:22 PM UTC

I don't understand how people can ride bicycles on public roads along side cars and trucks. The average driver is highly incompetent. Most people don't get proper training how to drive. A lot of people are very distracted with talking on cell phones or eating while driving. Heavy objects moving at high speeds can be very dangerous.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#29

Post by dmm » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 10:24 PM UTC

kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

I see cars run stop signs and red lights all the time. I see cars speed everywhere, including neighborhoods with poor visibility

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#30

Post by dpiers » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 10:24 PM UTC

ck2 wrote: post #3

The US has always had a horrible "you are on your own mentality". I mean, over a hundred kids have been killed by gun rampages in schools over the past several years and nothing has changed. Oh wait, no MORE guns have been made legal and available, not less. So basically the American public becomes trained to be desensitized to deaths, cyclists, schoolkids, drunk driving, etc.

Things have changed. I went to visit a teacher at my old high school while I was back home, and was told I needed to apply for a visitor pass (w/ background check) beforehand in order to be allowed in the building. And even then, I needed the person I was visiting to escort me.

Your post is a baseless rant which generalizes the thoughts and actions of hundreds of millions of people.