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In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

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Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#81
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both are caused by good parenting.

Good parenting causes you to be born outside the southeast?

Well, I thank my mother all the time for moving north several years before I was born.

But I'm pretty sure the comment was referring to "Children in homes containing books display intelligence at elevated rates" not the overall article.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#82
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone born in the bottom fifth who worked up into the top fifth, a big part of it is actively escaping childhood culture and that culture's expectations. When I grew up, I didn't know anyone wealthy or successful - I met them when I was an adult. Good role models are critical for kids' sense of scope and possibility. I don't think I could have said it better. I too grew up relatively poor, in a hick area 30 mi…

> pointing out these simple facts generates lots of very aggressive resistance. This, a thousand times, even from my own family. I've simply stopped trying to give advice.

I've had to make a personal rule to not get involved in anybody's life from where I grew up. It's simply too depressing watching them struggle with bad life-choice after bad life-choice, and only a few small changes would revolutionize their life and solve nearly all of their top issues.

The next biggest problem is that all of them want to talk about these bad life-choices with me, but don't want to hear the correct choice.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#83
I was born and grew up in WV. As many of you know, it is a poor state. We grew up on powdered milk. Most of my ancestors either went into chemical production (a local term from where I grew up is the "Chemical Valley", although most of that production and associated jobs are gone now) or slipped into the mines to work black gold [1].

We didn't have a lot, and there was no way that we could afford a computer. However, from a young age, I knew that I wanted to get into something called computer programming, as it was called in some books that I had checked out from the library. I was amazed that there was this "machine" that you could give instructions, which would cause it to display graphics and text on a TV, or play sounds from the TV's speaker. So, for as long as I can remember, I have always had an interest in computers.

It seems like only yesterday that I was out cutting lawns in the summer or shoveling snow in the winter so that I could earn enough lumber to buy a Commodore 64 [2], which was a king's ransom for a young lad in the early 80s.

"You want to buy a... computer?", is what I remember my parents saying, in the most puzzling tone, when I indicated my intentions to them.

It was a reasonable response at the time, since most people where I lived didn't know what a computer was. Fortunately, I must have done a good job of explaining just exactly why someone would want to use a computer (much less own one), because my request was granted.

Like all of our travels, this was a family event; all of us loaded up in the car (a timeless 1974 AMC Gremlin [3] — those that remember the car will recall that the maximum setting on the air conditioning dial read, "Desert use only") and drove down to the bank, where I withdrew enough money to purchase the single-most expensive item that I would ever purchase as an adolescent.

I didn't have enough for the Datasette [4] (much less the 1541 [5]), so I would write programs and leave the computer on. I would stay up late, teaching myself to program by reading the Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide [6].

Of course, my computer use quickly started showing up in the monthly power bill, and my dad started checking in with me every night, to make sure that I had turned the computer off. That was of course very difficult, because I had to manually write the programs down so that I could type them in again later. I eventually saved up enough for the Datasette, and finally even a 1541.

The rest is history. I know I'm discussing an "N=1" anecdote, but I've personally found that life is what you make it, no matter where you come from or your background. If you are willing to make it happen, you can make it happen; it's all up to you. On that topic, one of my favorite quotes is by Vince Lombardi [7]:

"A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive, and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_Gremlin

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_Datasette

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_1541

[6] http://www.commodore.ca/manuals/c64_programmers_reference/c6...

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Lombardi

Edit:

Thank you all for your replies.

I am very lucky to have identified, early on, what I like and to have the good fortunate that it became something more in my life.

I agree that there is a mix of luck, desire, work and opportunity-seizing that must come into play, in order to assist in an individual's attempt at making a dream turn into reality.

I stand corrected... "obstacle1" and "jshen" are correct... I've made the mistake of extrapolating a single experience to all cases across the board.

And, as "mkr-hn" pointed out, we don't live in a vacuum... so many factors and people come into play in our lives.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#84
post #75
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not at all consistent with my experience. I'm from rural MS, but was educated in Memphis. I went back to a small town (population: 4,500) to run a business there. Before I moved on, we had built it up to just over 40 employees. Except for technical jobs (finding programmers was damn near impossible), general labor jobs were easy to fill with a variety of skill levels. The people we paid $35,000 were quite well…

I didn't notice your reply otherwise I wouldn't have deleted my post. In my home town in northwestern MN there is an agricultural experiment station which paid $35,000 for a programming job a couple years ago. I made a spreadsheet and even as a single guy with my car paid off I'd only be able to save about $700 a month on that salary. And that's as a renter. Granted, heating costs are much more expensive in northwest…

$35k individual income is solidly middle class. If your wife works and makes $20k, you're at the median household income.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#85
post #83

I was born and grew up in WV. As many of you know, it is a poor state. We grew up on powdered milk. Most of my ancestors either went into chemical production (a local term from where I grew up is the "Chemical Valley", although most of that production and associated jobs are gone now) or slipped into the mines to work black gold [1]. We didn't have a lot, and there was no way that we could afford a computer. However,…

A great story, very proud of what you have accomplished and you should be too. I would just mention that your parents sound like they are incredibly supportive and were encouraging of your dreams. Not everyone has that.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#86
post #37

As someone born in the bottom fifth who worked up into the top fifth, a big part of it is actively escaping childhood culture and that culture's expectations. When I grew up, I didn't know anyone wealthy or successful - I met them when I was an adult. Good role models are critical for kids' sense of scope and possibility. Then again, as a political liberal, I tend to say an un-liberal thing when talking about income…

> Then again, as a political liberal, I tend to say an un-liberal thing when talking about income distribution... income isn't distributed evenly, but neither is talent. Mediocre people don't advance society. They tend to stay where they started (which explains a lot of management mediocrity - some are born into positions of privilege, but lack the talent to do anything with it but maintain the status quo). The way to maximize success for society as a whole is to maximize the opportunity of its most talented members, by eliminating cultural and social barriers to success.

I tend to take the another point of view on this: a society structured in a way that denies determination to individuals and communities because those people/communities are perceived to be untalented or unworthy is a society that perpetuates injustice and perpetuates and creates institutionalized class divisions.

> The way to maximize success for society as a whole is to maximize the opportunity of its most talented members, by eliminating cultural and social barriers to success.

Is this really true? If we ignore the problems of the average person or community do we really advance society? In a lot of ways western societies now turn a blind eye to class divisions, racism, sexism, etc. Can we say as a society this treatment really advances things? Is advancement for some really a society-wide advancement?

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#87
post #75
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not at all consistent with my experience. I'm from rural MS, but was educated in Memphis. I went back to a small town (population: 4,500) to run a business there. Before I moved on, we had built it up to just over 40 employees. Except for technical jobs (finding programmers was damn near impossible), general labor jobs were easy to fill with a variety of skill levels. The people we paid $35,000 were quite well…

I didn't notice your reply otherwise I wouldn't have deleted my post. In my home town in northwestern MN there is an agricultural experiment station which paid $35,000 for a programming job a couple years ago. I made a spreadsheet and even as a single guy with my car paid off I'd only be able to save about $700 a month on that salary. And that's as a renter. Granted, heating costs are much more expensive in northwest…

You may be slightly out of touch if you think saving $700 a month is poor. Huge portions of America have no savings and live paycheck to paycheck. Many more have only a few hundred in savings total.

50% of Americans couldn't come up with $2,000 in an emergency (citation: http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/24/news/economy/americans_lack_...). Only 25% were "certain" they could come up with the funds.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#88
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't notice your reply otherwise I wouldn't have deleted my post. In my home town in northwestern MN there is an agricultural experiment station which paid $35,000 for a programming job a couple years ago. I made a spreadsheet and even as a single guy with my car paid off I'd only be able to save about $700 a month on that salary. And that's as a renter. Granted, heating costs are much more expensive in northwest…

You may be slightly out of touch if you think saving $700 a month is poor. Huge portions of America have no savings and live paycheck to paycheck. Many more have only a few hundred in savings total. 50% of Americans couldn't come up with $2,000 in an emergency (citation: http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/24/news/economy/americans_lack_... ). Only 25% were "certain" they could come up with the funds.

Perhaps it's not "poor" but I was questioning whether it is really considered "solidly middle class." If it is, I guess I am out of touch.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#89
post #3

I'm sure some of you saw it because it's on page two (and linked in the article)-- but the New York Times has imo a much better article on this: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/business/in-climbing-incom...

What I found fascinating was when I zoomed in on my hometown area (Canton, OH area) the interactive "... With Parents in the X Percentile, ends up on average in the Y Percentile" flattens out as I raised the parent's percentile and then started to decrease. So on average children born into rich families decline by this metric (at least in this one area).
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