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In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

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Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#21

Post by jurassic »

In the white trash southern town where I grew up being a teacher at $35k/yr is considered one of the better jobs available. Military service is the best option for young men who want to provide a living wage to their families, especially since no education is required. A few dozen doctors and dentists and veterinarians make bank and live like kings (not really joking... think giant sailboats docked at their beach mansions with 4 car garages), but a big part of the problem is that there is no middle class. There's a huge chasm between $35k and $350k, with no opportunities. In a community that is that poor even entrepreneurship seems like an impossible choice. How can you make money in that community when nobody has got 2 pennies to rub together?

Another problem is that the culture does not value those things which empower young people to rise. Even among the top 5% of my high school class, I knew people who turned down full tuition scholarships to the flagship state university because they wanted to follow God and marry a nice boy from their church, or needed to stay home to help care and provide for members of their family. It's traditional and tribal, and looking off toward the horizon and going away for fancy schooling just doesn't rank highly on most peoples' priorities. In a community where many kids' parents attended the same high schools and the grandparents are local, wanting to leave is considered odd.

The only reason I'm not still there today is that for some reason, as a nerd and social outcast, I rejected that path from an early age and my top priority out of high school was to get the hell out. School was hell, but I consider myself fortunate not to be working minimum wage jobs and living in a trailer park like two of my siblings.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#22

Post by twoodfin »

wf wrote: post #3

I'm sure some of you saw it because it's on page two (and linked in the article)-- but the New York Times has imo a much better article on this: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/business/in-climbing-incom...

The interactive map is an amazing "infographic". What's interesting to me is the big band stretching from Duluth, MN to Midland, TX that's the most "upwardly mobile" for essentially all income classes.

An important note, though: While this data is useful for relative measurements, the absolute gain or loss in income % is less meaningful. For one thing, they're comparing ~30-yo's today to their parents in the "late '90s". Let's say I was 32 in 2012, and we compare my income with my parents' in 1998. In 1998, I would have been 18, which would mean my parents were likely at least 38, and had a few more prime years of earnings growth racked up.

Relatedly, my understanding is that there is a long-term trend towards later earnings years, tied to more professional and graduate education. Today's 30-yo just graduating from medical or business school might be primed to make great money later even if their parents were making more at age 30.

Just fascinating data.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#23

Post by GeneralMayhem »

rayiner wrote: post #15
thaumasiotes wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's recall four standard reasons for a correlation of two variables: (1) Coincidence. One rose over some time period, and the other also rose over the same period, despite being completely unrelated. (The world murder rate has been going down, and atmospheric carbon dioxide levels have been going up. This is a negative correlation.) (2) A causes B. (Cigarette smokers display lung cancer at elevated rates) (3) B cau…

What's a concrete example of (4) in this context that doesn't reduce trivially to (3)?

Both are caused by good parenting.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#24

Post by twoodfin »

anishkothari wrote: post #18
wf wrote: post #3

I'm sure some of you saw it because it's on page two (and linked in the article)-- but the New York Times has imo a much better article on this: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/business/in-climbing-incom...

Thanks for linking to the NYT article, much better than the Slate one. IMO access to efficient public transportation has an outsized impact on people's ability to move up the economic ladder.

How does that theory jibe with some of the best mobility results being concentrated in places like Nebraska, Kansas, Minnesota and North Texas?

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#25

Post by Dewie »

tokenadult wrote: post #4

I think the article's headline point is true for me in one odd way. I grew up in suburban Minneapolis, Minnesota, and by chance the school district where I grew up had mandatory foreign language instruction (German) for all elementary school pupils in grades four, five, and six. (One member of the district staff was a German refugee who came over to the United States after World War II. She set up German classes deli…

> My German is nicht so gut, but this early exposure to foreign language study (few Americans begin study of a second language before secondary school) got me started in the process of understanding what it takes to learn another language.

Or at least what it takes to learn another language according to the school system.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#26

Post by mpyne »

minimax wrote: post #16
tokenadult wrote: post #4

I think the article's headline point is true for me in one odd way. I grew up in suburban Minneapolis, Minnesota, and by chance the school district where I grew up had mandatory foreign language instruction (German) for all elementary school pupils in grades four, five, and six. (One member of the district staff was a German refugee who came over to the United States after World War II. She set up German classes deli…

few Americans begin study of a second language before secondary school Are you sure about that? I grew up in Texas and I remember taking Spanish in elementary school.

I've been to schools in about 4 different school districts in 3 different states (VA, PA, FL). None offered foreign language classes before high school.

Of course, this is also just anecdotal but I would certainly be surprised to hear that an elementary school or middle school were offering foreign language classes, especially if those classes are not tested for on the standardized exams that drive school ratings.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#27

Post by rayiner »

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #23
rayiner wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a concrete example of (4) in this context that doesn't reduce trivially to (3)?

Both are caused by good parenting.

Good parenting causes you to be born outside the southeast?

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#28

Post by thaumasiotes »

rayiner wrote: post #15
thaumasiotes wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's recall four standard reasons for a correlation of two variables: (1) Coincidence. One rose over some time period, and the other also rose over the same period, despite being completely unrelated. (The world murder rate has been going down, and atmospheric carbon dioxide levels have been going up. This is a negative correlation.) (2) A causes B. (Cigarette smokers display lung cancer at elevated rates) (3) B cau…

What's a concrete example of (4) in this context that doesn't reduce trivially to (3)?

Well, I can't actually produce a number for this, but how would you feel about a correlation between first digit of US zip code and incidence of Tay-Sachs disease?

Note: Tay-Sachs is something that happens to Jews, and Jews are concentrated in New York.

Does the zip code connection satisfy your demand of "in this context"?

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#29

Post by dlhavema »

minimax wrote: post #16
tokenadult wrote: post #4

I think the article's headline point is true for me in one odd way. I grew up in suburban Minneapolis, Minnesota, and by chance the school district where I grew up had mandatory foreign language instruction (German) for all elementary school pupils in grades four, five, and six. (One member of the district staff was a German refugee who came over to the United States after World War II. She set up German classes deli…

few Americans begin study of a second language before secondary school Are you sure about that? I grew up in Texas and I remember taking Spanish in elementary school.

i grew up in phoenix, az and didnt learn a second language until 7th grade, and that was a pretty basic class.. it didn't get very much beyond "the ball is red" until highschool

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#30

Post by techsupporter »

minimax wrote: post #16
tokenadult wrote: post #4

I think the article's headline point is true for me in one odd way. I grew up in suburban Minneapolis, Minnesota, and by chance the school district where I grew up had mandatory foreign language instruction (German) for all elementary school pupils in grades four, five, and six. (One member of the district staff was a German refugee who came over to the United States after World War II. She set up German classes deli…

few Americans begin study of a second language before secondary school Are you sure about that? I grew up in Texas and I remember taking Spanish in elementary school.

Same here. We could take Spanish or French in middle school and elementary school is just a haze at this point. When I graduated in the 90s, a foreign language credit was on the minimum high school requirements to graduate and two credits were required under my district's recommended plan. Most of us took two semesters of Spanish but a friend of mine took one Spanish and one German. Our school district wasn't even all that large or well-off (though it is now, thanks to suburban sprawl in north Texas) and we had Spanish, French, German, and (I kid you not) Latin.
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