Government Digital Service Design Principles • Hacker News Board

Re: Government Digital Service Design Principles

#81

Post by andyhmltn » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 12:31 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #79

mbesto wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

recording the conversation This is where I'm really failing to understand your logic. Your activity is very different from what you converse. If I fill out a web form and that data gets logged, fine, I can see how privacy may be an issue. Unless someone can correct me, Google analytics does not have that capability, it only tracks how you navigate. If I walk around a public library and check out 6 books and someone f…

In the largely broken analogy, you might phone the DVLA, ask to speak to a certain department (driver licenses, vehicle tax), then perform a specific task (apply for a new license). This maps to your navigation around the pages. Previously you would not really expect a third party in another country to be informed you were doing this, and I don't think it's necessary now. >> If I walk around a public library and chec…

>In the largely broken analogy, you might phone the DVLA, ask to speak to a certain department (driver licenses, vehicle tax), then perform a specific task (apply for a new license). This maps to your navigation around the pages. Previously you would not really expect a third party in another country to be informed you were doing this, and I don't think it's necessary now.

But that's the point I think he's trying to make: Why is this an issue? If I open up a page on the site that say tells me what the VAT rate is and that gets timestamped and sent to google, why should it matter?

The site is purely for information. They could - as you say - get wind of the fact that I want to apply for a new passport. So what? That (at least in my mind) isn't a privacy issue.

Re: Government Digital Service Design Principles

#82

Post by Nursie » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 1:34 PM UTC

andyhmltn wrote: post #81

Nursie wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the largely broken analogy, you might phone the DVLA, ask to speak to a certain department (driver licenses, vehicle tax), then perform a specific task (apply for a new license). This maps to your navigation around the pages. Previously you would not really expect a third party in another country to be informed you were doing this, and I don't think it's necessary now. >> If I walk around a public library and chec…

>In the largely broken analogy, you might phone the DVLA, ask to speak to a certain department (driver licenses, vehicle tax), then perform a specific task (apply for a new license). This maps to your navigation around the pages. Previously you would not really expect a third party in another country to be informed you were doing this, and I don't think it's necessary now. But that's the point I think he's trying to…

>> The site is purely for information.

Well, not really, it directs you to portals for various services.

>> They could - as you say - get wind of the fact that I want to apply for a new passport. So what? That (at least in my mind) isn't a privacy issue.

I think it is and I would be upset about (for instance) my library browsing habits being supplied to people as well, particularly if they were based in places with far less in the way of data protection law.

You may as well say "Why would anyone care about PRISM? Who cares who knows I call my mom every week?", yet it's the biggest story around at the moment.

Re: Government Digital Service Design Principles

#83

Post by andyhmltn » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 1:41 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #82

andyhmltn wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the largely broken analogy, you might phone the DVLA, ask to speak to a certain department (driver licenses, vehicle tax), then perform a specific task (apply for a new license). This maps to your navigation around the pages. Previously you would not really expect a third party in another country to be informed you were doing this, and I don't think it's necessary now. But that's the point I think he's trying to…

>> The site is purely for information. Well, not really, it directs you to portals for various services. >> They could - as you say - get wind of the fact that I want to apply for a new passport. So what? That (at least in my mind) isn't a privacy issue. I think it is and I would be upset about (for instance) my library browsing habits being supplied to people as well, particularly if they were based in places with f…

I certainly understand where you are coming from, I just think that the issue of having this data supplied to Google isn't really that important to warrant spending a tremendous amount of the budget to do an in house system.

The fact is that the web is not anonymous in its nature. If I browse to a random site I've never heard of, how do I know they aren't using a third party image? If they are, then my IP/Location will be broadcast to that third party.

Re: Government Digital Service Design Principles

#84

Post by Nursie » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 1:56 PM UTC

andyhmltn wrote: post #83

Nursie wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The site is purely for information. Well, not really, it directs you to portals for various services. >> They could - as you say - get wind of the fact that I want to apply for a new passport. So what? That (at least in my mind) isn't a privacy issue. I think it is and I would be upset about (for instance) my library browsing habits being supplied to people as well, particularly if they were based in places with f…

I certainly understand where you are coming from, I just think that the issue of having this data supplied to Google isn't really that important to warrant spending a tremendous amount of the budget to do an in house system. The fact is that the web is not anonymous in its nature. If I browse to a random site I've never heard of, how do I know they aren't using a third party image? If they are, then my IP/Location wi…

>> I just think that the issue of having this data supplied to Google isn't really that important to warrant spending a tremendous amount of the budget to do an in house system.

Well I think they probably have a tremendous budget, and a variety of FOSS or third party (but running in-house) solutions have been mentioned in comments here, that could likely do the job.

>> The fact is that the web is not anonymous in its nature.

It's not really about anonymity though, it's about who the government is (deliberately) sharing data with or leaking data too. I'm not asking for anonymity in who I intend to interact with (UK government services), I'm asking them to think about who they share that data with.

>> If I browse to a random site I've never heard of, how do I know they aren't using a third party image? If they are, then my IP/Location will be broadcast to that third party.

When it is a page run by one's own government, one can have different expectations and even ask for things to be changed not to leak such data. Or at least ask if they've thought about it.

However this is also why I tend to block things like social media buttons, I have no desire for FB or Google to be informed every time I read ... well just about anything online these days.