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Flat UI, mirrored

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Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#81

Post by bluekeybox »

NoPiece wrote: post #71
bluekeybox wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Good Design will and always strives to be universal Good Design doesn't sell. Great Design does. Great design will achieve exclusivity by iteratively attempting (and failing) to become universal. > It's funny that the recent Flat-design trend was triggered by Microsoft's Metro UI, which is inspired by Modern Cities' signage Which was probably inspired by Mondrian's experiments in exclusivity.

What would you say about a typeface like Helvetica? I'd say its greatness largely is derived from universality, not exclusivity.

It's always a combination of universality and exclusivity. The latter creates a "gradient" which causes a particular design to spread. Watch the documentary "Helvetica". At it's peak in the 1960s, Helvetica had high-end "international" aura and small brands everywhere were scrambling to redesign their signage to what they perceived was a new customer-friendly yet high-end image (probably best visualized as a smiling and good-looking Swiss airline flight attendant with a noticeable accent).

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#82

Post by mistercow »

dutchbrit wrote: post #75
mistercow wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of. It was taken down because LayerVault filed a DMCA notice, but you don't have to prove anything to file a DMCA notice (and yes, this is a broken system).

Well, I agree - I once filed a DMCA notice, but in that situation, the person actually copied some of my icons, instead of being deeply inspired. While I do agree there is a difference, there is a fine line - I do agree however that in this case, that the majority could easily be fixed. Even though it's not exactly a 1 on 1 copy, it's too inspired from the examples I saw, mainly being the design news icon.

IANAL, but I don't think that "too inspired" is really the sort of thing that is covered by the DMCA, and in any case, you can't file a notice to take down the whole project just because you think three icons are derived from your work.

As for the newspaper icon, it has already been pointed out that LayerVault's version is far more similar to this icon from The Noun Project (http://thenounproject.com/noun/newspaper/) than it is to the Flat UI version.

The other claims I've seen are that the gears icon (not even close), the "talking head" (not even close), and the color palette (not something you can copyright).

More importantly, this fork doesn't seem to contain any of those disputed icons, so I don't think there's anything improper here.

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#83

Post by cm127 »

px1999 wrote: post #58
MereInterest wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a (non-malevolent) reason for this clause? It seems to be something put in to deliberately slow down proceedings and apply a penalty to the accused regardless of what happens.

It's there to deter fake counternotices by giving the original issuer time to seek an injunction / file a lawsuit I think.

Are there penalties for being wrong or mistaken? It seems pretty one-sided.

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#84

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

aviraldg wrote: post #20
arb99 wrote: post #17

What is the deal with this? It was posted here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5321603 a few days ago but that link is now dead. is this the original one on github or something?

The original was on DesignModo's Github account, but was taken down due to an unjustified DMCA takedown request from LayerVault. Github's DMCA policies prevent that from being made available again within 10 days. This version is hosted on iurevych's (the original creator of Flat UI) Github account.

It's not github policy, it's explicitly part of the law.

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#85

Post by grinich »

WayneDB wrote: post #66
ameen wrote: post #38

This whole episode has underlined a few major differences among developers and (current) designers. Developers are more open, contribute code and discuss about bettering each other. While Designers seem secretive, ego-filled and seeking pointless exclusivity. Eg: Developers: HackerNews / Github, etc Designers: DesignerNews / Dribble, Forrst, etc. Any designer that has been open about his work and process has become a…

How has Jonathan Ive been open about his work?

famous != open

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#86

Post by ZoFreX »

cm127 wrote: post #83
px1999 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's there to deter fake counternotices by giving the original issuer time to seek an injunction / file a lawsuit I think.

Are there penalties for being wrong or mistaken? It seems pretty one-sided.

Not for mistaken so much but if you can prove mal intent, yes there are penalties.

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#88

Post by nsxwolf »

So, to see an example, I have to build it and deploy an application? I don't understand this tendency of posting links to a github page that presents no screenshots or examples.

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#89

Post by enra »

ameen wrote: post #38

This whole episode has underlined a few major differences among developers and (current) designers. Developers are more open, contribute code and discuss about bettering each other. While Designers seem secretive, ego-filled and seeking pointless exclusivity. Eg: Developers: HackerNews / Github, etc Designers: DesignerNews / Dribble, Forrst, etc. Any designer that has been open about his work and process has become a…

I think it's more about that design is personal, identifying (which also brings up emotions easily) and that the problem here is about the rights for those personal things. Since design is actually _more_ open, visible and made for people, inherently there isn't any way to hide or obscure it (like you can do in some level with code or technology). It's about having rights or giving permission. You share the code or design you want to share, but should have a right not to do it as well.

You design something for your loved one, and see it end up as campaign for a multimillion dollar business. You design your product with love, just with the right and personal style and see it to end up as commodity. Those things feel like worst kind of abuse if you didn't expect or want them to happen. There is bit similar kind of outrage when corporations use open source code and don't share it back.

Design and brands are also identifying and they build trust and value, so copying design is bit like stealing your identity, name or face. If someone somehow uses your code without your permission, almost no-one will notice that it's _your code_ running in the backend.

And this is not the same discussion as pirating music or movies, those are products made to consume, and their value doesn't decrease when people use it more. But for example using Bootstrap default design doesn't really bring up trust or anything positive anymore since some many people are using it, so usage decreases the value of a specific design.

As a final note, fashion and design of course runs on getting inspired by other people's work and that's how it should be be. However even something isn't illegal, it doesn't mean it's ethical or nice.

(You may also notice that both Rams and Ive talk about their designs or process post-mortem, so they can choose the parts and the way they want to talk about it.)

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#90

Post by dutchbrit »

mistercow wrote: post #82
dutchbrit wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I agree - I once filed a DMCA notice, but in that situation, the person actually copied some of my icons, instead of being deeply inspired. While I do agree there is a difference, there is a fine line - I do agree however that in this case, that the majority could easily be fixed. Even though it's not exactly a 1 on 1 copy, it's too inspired from the examples I saw, mainly being the design news icon.

IANAL, but I don't think that "too inspired" is really the sort of thing that is covered by the DMCA, and in any case, you can't file a notice to take down the whole project just because you think three icons are derived from your work. As for the newspaper icon, it has already been pointed out that LayerVault's version is far more similar to this icon from The Noun Project ( http://thenounproject.com/noun/newspaper/…

Upvote for the Noune Project part!

LayerVault might of bought a Noune Project icon license however, but still, it's all too coincidental, even when you look at the colour scheme.

You can't copyright a shape & colour combinations (mainly squares) however, so it does make it tougher to call something a huge 'rip'

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