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Flat UI, mirrored

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Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#71

Post by NoPiece »

bluekeybox wrote: post #61
ameen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that you actually say that "Exclusivity is the currency of design" , while living in a well designed non-inclusive world (Well designed Signs, Roads, Cars, Mobile devices, etc). Good Design will and always strives to be universal. It's funny that the recent Flat-design trend was triggered by Microsoft's Metro UI, which is inspired by Modern Cities' signage (universal design). Also, isn't the point of icons…

> Good Design will and always strives to be universal Good Design doesn't sell. Great Design does. Great design will achieve exclusivity by iteratively attempting (and failing) to become universal. > It's funny that the recent Flat-design trend was triggered by Microsoft's Metro UI, which is inspired by Modern Cities' signage Which was probably inspired by Mondrian's experiments in exclusivity.

What would you say about a typeface like Helvetica? I'd say its greatness largely is derived from universality, not exclusivity.

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#72

Post by derleth »

ratherbefuddled wrote: post #70
ameen wrote: post #38

This whole episode has underlined a few major differences among developers and (current) designers. Developers are more open, contribute code and discuss about bettering each other. While Designers seem secretive, ego-filled and seeking pointless exclusivity. Eg: Developers: HackerNews / Github, etc Designers: DesignerNews / Dribble, Forrst, etc. Any designer that has been open about his work and process has become a…

The distinction I think I've seen is that designers are often more inclined to assert ownership of an abstract idea, whereas developers tend to assert ownership of the concrete and often revile the notion of owning ideas. I say this because (in general), whilst developers would not violate a license or steal code, they would often happily implement the same idea someone else had from scratch without any qualms. You c…

> they would often happily implement the same idea someone else had from scratch without any qualms

There is only one MD5. There is only one preorder traversal of a binary tree. Creativity is essential, but unless you do those kinds of things the same way as everyone else, you're doing them wrong and will get the wrong results.

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#74

Post by Retric »

etchalon wrote: post #55
Retric wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assuming someone nicked your stuff. With millions of sites out there are a lot of layouts, icons, and whatnot that look similar that are not in fact copy's. Worse designers are rarely the type of people that think of the (millions) ^ 2 possibilities. Honestly, unless your talking about a large file with a lot of entropy your probably in the wrong sending a DMCA take-down request.

"Worse designers are rarely the type of people that think of the (millions) ^ 2 possibilities." Yes. Clearly designers are incapable of original thinking. Generalizations are fun!

You misunderstand, many people assume when looking at rare events you need to consider the direct odds but forget about the false positive rate. Which is really more the preview of drug trials than design schools.

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#75

Post by dutchbrit »

mistercow wrote: post #68
dutchbrit wrote: post #65

Is this the correct thing to do? Wasn't it taken down for a reason?

Sort of. It was taken down because LayerVault filed a DMCA notice, but you don't have to prove anything to file a DMCA notice (and yes, this is a broken system).

Well, I agree - I once filed a DMCA notice, but in that situation, the person actually copied some of my icons, instead of being deeply inspired. While I do agree there is a difference, there is a fine line - I do agree however that in this case, that the majority could easily be fixed. Even though it's not exactly a 1 on 1 copy, it's too inspired from the examples I saw, mainly being the design news icon.

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#76

Post by pyalot2 »

Ah the sweet sweet workings of the streisand effect. This new fork now has more forks and stars than the original ever had.

How's that DMCA thing working out for you LayerVault?

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#77

Post by lancefisher »

It's amusing that there are 188 forks now.

I expected a fork, but not from the author. I don't know that this is a good idea since it could cause a termination of his account. I think that is at github's discretion.

I'd never heard of LayerVault before, but based on what I've seen of the "infringing" design which amounts to 3 similar (but different) icons, they are clearly wrong to issue the DMCA. This is what I'll remember about LayerVault. Not all press is good actually.

I'm glad that @iurevych is filing a counter notice, but what is too bad, is that links from press like Smashing Magazine and CSS Tricks are not working. This will hurt FlatUI.

I really hope that LayerVault drops it at this point, but if they pursue a lawsuit, I would like to see it fought.

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#78

Post by ameen »

mnicole wrote: post #69
ameen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is people confuse design and aesthetics a lot. Design is inherently meant to be universal, and obviously if something is really well designed it does make the product compelling and attractive. Design cannot be copied, while aesthetics can. One can copy a single design - say an icon for example, but they cannot copy the original designer's workflow and thought-process in coming up with the final d…

I totally agree with you re: design vs. aesthetics (even went on a tangent about it some weeks ago). > And I seriously doubt good designers not getting work due to scummy photocopiers grabbing up jobs. Knowing some very well-known designers, I can assure you that they are losing work. Big companies reach out to these artists about their style and how much it would cost, and after not hearing anything for a few months…

While there are cases (like you mentioned), it's also the designer's part to hustle a bit. If one has the skills and the know-how, they can be unstoppable if they want to.

Tangential to your example: I knew an illustrator who used to sketch animals in a cartoon-style, but she kept at it and eventually got hired by Rovio. But she didn't get the role just for her skills, she got it because she hustled - made an Angry Birds' fan-video and made a physical copy of it and mailed it to Rovio.

Talent alone won't help in succeeding, only persistence will. Heck, talent can be acquired, persistence on the other hand, mostly isn't.

Also, original art/design will always get credit if it is promoted properly.

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#79

Post by bpatrianakos »

ameen wrote: post #63
bpatrianakos wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's too broad of a generalization. I happen to walk the line between designer and developer and I know a lot of my fellow designers are very open about their process and work. Designers often share their tools and techniques openly. See the multitude of CSS frameworks, free fonts, PSDs, etc. I think the notion that they're more secretive less open comes from these cases where a designer does make a stink a…

I'm a designer/developer too, and this has been a long-time observation of mine. While there is openness in design (and a whole sub-culture which is dedicated to making life easier), there isn't much among Designers (afaik). I've been inspired by many and have inspired a few designs as well, but rather than being bitter about it, I follow the thought process of my primal developer instinct - Did they make it better o…

I think what LayerVault has done is awful too! I wasn't trying to defend them at all. I just didn't agree with the idea that designers are less open than developers. Flat-UI and LayerVault may be riding a trend but neither one can claim ownership of anything except the exact assets they've created. There might be a fine line where a color scheme is used in such a way where it can be construed as plagiarism or maybe the icons were recreated from scratch to look exactly like LayerVault's but still preserving plausible deniability and those cases I might be able to get behind Layervault being upset. I liken it to Queen suing Vanilla Ice for using their riff in 'Ice Ice Baby' or how that one One Direction song sounds almost exactly like the Clash song whose name escapes me right now. In those cases it's just plain obvious the artist was trying to sample someone else's music but changed the riff just enough to be able to call it their own. And that brings me to the subjective part. The developer in me hates that there's not an exact answer to the question "When does inspiration become plagiarism" but that's life.

Re: Flat UI, mirrored

#80

Post by mnicole »

ameen wrote: post #78
mnicole wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with you re: design vs. aesthetics (even went on a tangent about it some weeks ago). > And I seriously doubt good designers not getting work due to scummy photocopiers grabbing up jobs. Knowing some very well-known designers, I can assure you that they are losing work. Big companies reach out to these artists about their style and how much it would cost, and after not hearing anything for a few months…

While there are cases (like you mentioned), it's also the designer's part to hustle a bit. If one has the skills and the know-how, they can be unstoppable if they want to. Tangential to your example: I knew an illustrator who used to sketch animals in a cartoon-style, but she kept at it and eventually got hired by Rovio. But she didn't get the role just for her skills, she got it because she hustled - made an Angry B…

This has nothing to do with the hustle; this is post-hustle - that's why these companies are even reaching out to the artists directly. The ones that know exactly who they're trying to copy are the worst offenders.

> Also, original art/design will always get credit if it is promoted properly.

This is simply not true, which is why Twitter is often a platform used for calling people out.

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