> some music from Eric Satre, a 19th century French composer
> Gymnopedie No 1
Eric (or as he preferred, Erik) SATIE.
Ask HN: Fable hacked my piano, can I release the results?
81–90 of 173 posts
Re: Ask HN: Fable hacked my piano, can I release the results?
#82my experience with LLMs is that when you get answers to questions you didn't ask that it's repeating something that already exists. In other words, it probably regenerated a tool from which it was trained on.
How do you know this? How would you falsify this hypothesis?
You could train an LLM on a dataset that intentionally excludes certain data, and see if it is able to extrapolate outside of its dataset and come up with those excluded items independently.
For example, remove all code from your training data, and then see if the model can code regardless.
Re: Ask HN: Fable hacked my piano, can I release the results?
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if the companies start auto subpoenaing the AI companies to try and tie the code to an account?
Do companies in the US really have the right to do that? I would think that kind of investigation is reserved for law enforcement only. If the design was made over email, would the piano company be able to subpoena Google for someone's private gmail messages?
> Do companies in the US really have the right to do that?
Does it matter? What's important is if it can happen or not, and how if so. We already know that MPAA is willing to basically do whatever, even contribute themselves to piracy, if it means they can put people in jail for copying stuff eventually. They themselves also gotten in trouble for copyright violations themselves in the past, so doesn't seem like they're hiding away from breaking a little bit of laws to hunt pirates.
Re: Ask HN: Fable hacked my piano, can I release the results?
#84You are free to interpret this comment as prohibition or as my blessing, but... If it matters, ask your lawyer. If it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. Or to put it another way, trademarks (you've mentioned two) and copyrights (it's a crapshoot) are complex. And in some jurisdictions (notably the US) anybody can sue anyone for anything. Your risk aversion is yours, not someone else's. Your financial and legal wherew…
> And in some jurisdictions (notably the US) anybody can sue anyone for anything. That should be the case in all jurisdictions. The justice system exists so that, if I feel treated unfairly, I can go to the state to settle the question whether/how much that is true. If there are issues where I cannot go to court, what am I supposed to do? Go fight you over the issue? What differs (a lot) is how effectively the system…
Should also mention the SLAPP suits which specifically exists because anyone can sue for anything.
Re: Ask HN: Fable hacked my piano, can I release the results?
#85yea - just publish it
Re: Ask HN: Fable hacked my piano, can I release the results?
#86This is a nit but his name is actually Erik Satie not Eric Satre.
Thanks! I was confused, thinking "Is it Satie, or is this a case of Muphry's law?". I wanted to learn more about this Satre composer I never heard of.
Re: Ask HN: Fable hacked my piano, can I release the results?
#87Ideally someone random on github would post the same thing, so you don't have to. That would be a fortunate coincidence but I'm pretty sure these things happen.
Re: Ask HN: Fable hacked my piano, can I release the results?
#88From my understanding of laws in Germany, in Germany, you're allowed to do all of this if your goal is interoperability of systems.
If your goal is to not pay them money - which you strategically unwisely hinted at with this question - then that's not covered by that exemption, I think.
So from my understanding, adding new music and releasing the tooling for that should be fine, but IANAL.
Frankly, what is or isn't legal doesn't matter as much as your story, as you will be judged by that. It also helps if the story is actually genuine, but that is a somewhat optional requirement all things considered. At least the industry treats it as such.
__
FWIW, as these capabilities trickle down to everyone through LLMs, it is worth asking yourself whether it is worth the trouble of releasing it in the first place.
If anyone can replicate this within a reasonably short timespan, then maybe not.
___
With this stuff in particular, it's also worth considering the business model of the entity.
Does your work pose a relevant risk for their bottom line? If yes, then bad. If no, then shrug.
Is music sold their main revenue channel, or are they just also doing that because recurring revenue is nice to have?
How user-friendly would you want your work to end up as? Would it target the demographic that would otherwise just buy the music?
Truth is that this is all just an elaborate dance.
___
To close the "polish trains" gap in what I just wrote in the last section:
"Is their business model ethical? And is it considered that by the majority, common sense, and politicians?"
Re: Ask HN: Fable hacked my piano, can I release the results?
#89Why not publish the methodology in detail and leave it at that?
Usually people only bother reading it if the outcome is interesting
Re: Ask HN: Fable hacked my piano, can I release the results?
#90IANAL but... isn't this somewhat analogous to side-loading apps on iOS or Android? As in, Google/Apple make it awkward for you to provide your own files to run on your phone, but ultimately it's not impossible nor illegal.
Likewise, if you're able to upload your own custom MIDI (or other) files for your piano to play, then all you'd be doing is sharing a utility that creates mixed audio/MIDI MP3s, which may or may not be used to create files which can then be legitimately uploaded to a piano.