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U.S. officials believed Israel was plotting to kill Iranian negotiators

nytimes.com

81–90 of 106 posts

Re: U.S. officials believed Israel was plotting to kill Iranian negotiators

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purchased, blackmailed, threatened, or all 3. There's a lot of tools in the intelligence toolbox.

don't forget the ideological angle -- they've been hyping the Christian rubes that they need to own the holy land so Jesus will come back or some shit.

I don’t blame Israel for that one, evangelicals have a mile-wide apocalyptic streak and there are plenty of homegrown grifters ready to hustle them.

Re: U.S. officials believed Israel was plotting to kill Iranian negotiators

#82
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about this: Ashkenazi Jewish culture with its emphasis on education and discipline stemming from studying religious texts leading to widespread literacy has led this group of people to outperform the mainline on intellectual tasks just like other cultures with an emphasis on education and literacy tend to outperform the mainline . You don't need genetic inheritance to explain Jewish over-performance, cultural inh…

There are no such thing as "national IQ averages".

Yes there are no matter whether you consider IQ a valid concept or not. In the context of the grandparent's remark about Ashkenazi Jews being 'smarter' it is relevant to compare specific group averages (e.g. Ashkenazi Jews) with national averages, especially in the case of Israel where there is a marked difference between the national average IQ and that for the group 'Ashkenazi Jews' (about 24% of the total Israeli population calculated from the numbers presented in [1]).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Jews

Re: U.S. officials believed Israel was plotting to kill Iranian negotiators

#83
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no such thing as "national IQ averages".

Yes there are no matter whether you consider IQ a valid concept or not. In the context of the grandparent's remark about Ashkenazi Jews being 'smarter' it is relevant to compare specific group averages (e.g. Ashkenazi Jews) with national averages, especially in the case of Israel where there is a marked difference between the national average IQ and that for the group 'Ashkenazi Jews' (about 24% of the total Israeli…

No, there aren't. Countries generally don't do latitudinal IQ surveys. Very few people reading HN have ever been asked to take an IQ test, let alone compelled to do so. Numbers attributing "IQ" to countries are generally fraudulent (i.e., Richard Lynn's "IQ And The Wealth Of Nations" numbers).

I'm not making any other claim than that specific one: there is no such thing as "national IQ averages". If you claim there's some other kind of "IQ average" that isn't "national", you're addressing a point I didn't make.

Re: U.S. officials believed Israel was plotting to kill Iranian negotiators

#84
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about this: Ashkenazi Jewish culture with its emphasis on education and discipline stemming from studying religious texts leading to widespread literacy has led this group of people to outperform the mainline on intellectual tasks just like other cultures with an emphasis on education and literacy tend to outperform the mainline . You don't need genetic inheritance to explain Jewish over-performance, cultural inh…

> You don't need genetic inheritance to explain Jewish over-performance, cultural inheritance is enough. but it is known, independently of Jewish population studies, that genetic inheritance is a strong factor in IQ performance, and such data also demands explanation; there is no point in leaving it out of population studies. It is much more frustrating to perform tasks that are more difficult for you than things tha…

Yes, there does seem to be a genetic component to IQ but as I stated you don't need to include it here to explain why cultures which place emphasis on education and discipline score higher than those which don't. Even if intelligence were not heritable those cultures would on average still perform better than those which don't value education and discipline. Adding a heritable component makes the effect stronger, especially in cultures where intracultural marriages are common or the norm.

Re: U.S. officials believed Israel was plotting to kill Iranian negotiators

#85
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there are no matter whether you consider IQ a valid concept or not. In the context of the grandparent's remark about Ashkenazi Jews being 'smarter' it is relevant to compare specific group averages (e.g. Ashkenazi Jews) with national averages, especially in the case of Israel where there is a marked difference between the national average IQ and that for the group 'Ashkenazi Jews' (about 24% of the total Israeli…

No, there aren't. Countries generally don't do latitudinal IQ surveys. Very few people reading HN have ever been asked to take an IQ test, let alone compelled to do so. Numbers attributing "IQ" to countries are generally fraudulent (i.e., Richard Lynn's "IQ And The Wealth Of Nations" numbers). I'm not making any other claim than that specific one: there is no such thing as "national IQ averages". If you claim there's…

Countries don't have to do tests, that is done by people who take tests organised by institutions, The results are grouped by whatever factors the test developers consider interesting and the results are published. We can quibble about the value of these results, about the value of IQ as a concept, about the sample size of IQ-test-taking groups in different countries and much more but that is all irrelevant when considering the question whether there is something like an average IQ score grouped by country. Those scores exist and the results from several independent studies are largely the same.

Re: U.S. officials believed Israel was plotting to kill Iranian negotiators

#86
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you claiming Jews are more intelligent than non-Jews?

https://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/1478/ "Cochran and Harpending also cite studies claiming that Ashkenazim have the highest IQ of any ethnic group for which there’s reliable data, perhaps as much as a full standard deviation above the general European average, which means, at the far end of the spectrum, that 23 per thousand Ashkenazim have an IQ over 140, as opposed to 4 per thousand Northern Europeans…

This guy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Harpending#Views_on_race

Re: U.S. officials believed Israel was plotting to kill Iranian negotiators

#87
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there aren't. Countries generally don't do latitudinal IQ surveys. Very few people reading HN have ever been asked to take an IQ test, let alone compelled to do so. Numbers attributing "IQ" to countries are generally fraudulent (i.e., Richard Lynn's "IQ And The Wealth Of Nations" numbers). I'm not making any other claim than that specific one: there is no such thing as "national IQ averages". If you claim there's…

Countries don't have to do tests, that is done by people who take tests organised by institutions , The results are grouped by whatever factors the test developers consider interesting and the results are published. We can quibble about the value of these results, about the value of IQ as a concept, about the sample size of IQ-test-taking groups in different countries and much more but that is all irrelevant when con…

Your original link makes fairly clear how disingenuous it is to call the figures a national average:

> Data from International IQ Test (IIT) are based on data from 1,352,763 participants worldwide who took the same IQ test on the website.

> Becker’s estimates are categorized by source. T = value is based upon actual test results from said country. E = value is a best-guess estimate based upon measured values of nearby countries.

Opening up the actual paper from Becker they're citing is basically a wandering tour where they try to find whatever numbers do exist and then math their way out of the fact that the sample sizes are small and the tests are different everywhere.

Various entities have performed IQ tests on people in many nations. But taking that and trying to flip it to say we've derived average national IQ is junk science.

Re: U.S. officials believed Israel was plotting to kill Iranian negotiators

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yeah a lot of us are tired of it. I dislike the democrats intensely. I also dislike the GOP folks intensely. Which is why I dislike your line of reasoning here: -you- are playing the game we are all tired of. Like, no shit the Dems didn't drop the files because it implicates folks like Bill Clinton. But that doesn't make it the case that DT would be okay with the files dropping either. And it doesn't make it the case…

I did not mention the GOP, you did. Of course it is implied that it is either the D or R party since you only have two of them (that matter, anyway) which makes your accusation of it being me who mentions the D party rather pointless.

Stop it? Stop what? Pointing out the obvious? Why would I stop that, other than to appease those who ignore the elephant or donkey in the room? If you're tired of being confronted with people pointing out the emperor has no clothes I'd suggest you just look away or tell the emperor or his keepers it is time to put on some.

Re: U.S. officials believed Israel was plotting to kill Iranian negotiators

#89

While the IRGC works out how to eliminate Jews from the planet. “First they come for the Saturday people”

You know that israel bombed jewish places of worship in Iran, right?

https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2026/4/11/iranian-r...

Re: U.S. officials believed Israel was plotting to kill Iranian negotiators

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yeah a lot of us are tired of it. I dislike the democrats intensely. I also dislike the GOP folks intensely. Which is why I dislike your line of reasoning here: -you- are playing the game we are all tired of. Like, no shit the Dems didn't drop the files because it implicates folks like Bill Clinton. But that doesn't make it the case that DT would be okay with the files dropping either. And it doesn't make it the case…

They constantly try to misdirect people's attention from the files, it's comical.

UPD: wow, I read their other comments. Just wow.

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