Earlier quoted context omitted.
True, but in reality you're probably sending that password over something less secure (like an SSL connection) that doesn't require quite as long (but still a very long time) to crack. Anything is only as secure as the weakest link in the chain. If (I'm sure you don't) you allow your browser to save that password so that you don't have to enter it every time then you just need one cleverly designed trojan to be run o…
There you go 30 chars password don't matter. Sure, it's not low hanging fruit, but it's not troublesome if you're the target Why? Weakness 1: Because it's written down somewhere. Weakness 2..n: weaker links in the chain
New 25 GPU Monster Devours Passwords In Seconds
81–90 of 91 posts
Re: New 25 GPU Monster Devours Passwords In Seconds
#82The numbers are ... misleading ... and choosing NTLM hashes seems like bordering on misinformation. Taking SHA-1 (which YOU MUST NOT USE for password hashing blah), it manages 63 billion a second. To try all the passwords for that in the alphanumeric space: - 10 chars: 35 weeks - 11 chars: 44 years - 12 chars: 2,800 years - 16 chars: 11 times the age of the sun 10 chars for bcrypt: 600,000 years... http://www.wolfram…
I'm kind of rusty on algorithmic information theory (I'm an artist, heh)! Is there such a thing as (formalized) upper limit of what we could do as far as computing combinations go? I know of Kolmogorov complexity (vaguely), but what are the hard limits and challenges of just prodding through (faster and faster as tech goes forward) combinations until success? I plan on developing a story around that and make a movie…
Apparently it takes a minimum amount of energy to flip one bit in a conventional (non quantum) computer.
In order to brute force a 128 bit key, you'd need some sort of 128 bit register. Multiply the amount of energy needed per bit flip and the result implies there are never likley to be enough power plants on Earth to iterate through all the combinations (let alone perform the computations required to test the candidate key).
Hope this helps, perhaps this is enough for you to find the original reference.
Edit: perhaps it was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle as mentioned below.
Re: New 25 GPU Monster Devours Passwords In Seconds
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's worth pointing out that length is not important, only entropy is important. If you create a really long phrase by forming a sentence from very common English words, the entropy is actually really low, and if everyone started doing this you can bet your boots the password crackers would catch up. However you create your password you should take a stab at calculating the entropy (and incidentally a 10 character tr…
> It's worth pointing out that length is not important, only entropy is important. Theoretically yes, as long as you assume the equivalent of a spherical cow in a vacuum. We've (the security community) become very good at enforcing password schemes that are hard for users to remember and easier for computers to crack. While you could correctly assert that a 30 character long lower case letter only phrase has less ent…
> it makes no odds to me - I'm getting neither of them in a reasonable timeframe
There's nothing wrong with a passphrase as long as it can't be gotten in a reasonable timeframe, obviously! My point about generation stands, though - no password scheme stands in a vacuum, and if whatever you do catches on, you can guarantee software will be made to exploit the low entropy passwords on that scheme (for example, attacks can now include tricks like taking the website name - LinkedIn - and performing common mutations to generate passwords to attempt: L1nk3dIn1)
If it became really common, people would make rainbow tables for it too. All you'd need to do is create a reduction function that maps back into the set :)
This applies to all forms of password generation though: ultimately, entropy is important, and if you care about your security you should know whether the entropy levels of your passwords afford you the security you want or need.
Re: New 25 GPU Monster Devours Passwords In Seconds
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's worth pointing out that length is not important, only entropy is important. If you create a really long phrase by forming a sentence from very common English words, the entropy is actually really low, and if everyone started doing this you can bet your boots the password crackers would catch up. However you create your password you should take a stab at calculating the entropy (and incidentally a 10 character tr…
> It's worth pointing out that length is not important, only entropy is important. Entropy is important, but multi-word passwords stills being efficient since their alphabet is quite large when compared with common alpha-symbolic-numeric passwords. For example, a completely random password with 12 digits and upper/lower case letters have (26+26+10)^12 = 3.226e21 possibilities. Quite good unless you need to memorize t…
By the way, it's a bit easier to discuss bits of entropy rather than number of possibilities. Assuming each possibility is equal (which is NOT true if you pick the password yourself, rather than randomly) then the entropy would be the logarithm of the no. of possibilities. Generally people use base 2, so:
Random 12 digits alphanumeric: 71 bits of entropy Four common words: 30 bits of entropy Five words: 60 bits of entropy
The multi-GPU cracker on the frontpage today would take 500,000 years to crack the 5 word password if it was stored via bcrypt (according to the article, which sadly did not specify the work factor). The four common words one, however, would fall in just four hours!
P.S. It isn't actually hard to remember a complex password. Almost anybody can do it! The passphrase method is actually not dissimilar to the technique I use. Say the password started "OK53B3" (I just generated this in LastPass). OK, let's figure out a way to remember it. OK, I thought of a way to remember the first two letters ;) 53.. 54 cards in a deck with the jokers, so we've lost a joker. "OK, guys, we've lost a joker" "B3" sounds like someone with a few missing teeth saying "be free!" so I'm imagining a toddler throwing the joker out of the window going "be thfree!"
Very rapidly this will shortern as your memory of it strengthens with repetition (if you're entering this password every day - I recommend using a password manager so you have just one secure password you enter every day). After a few days it will be "OK missing joker be three" etc then just the password itself. After a bit longer it just becomes muscle memory - I couldn't actually recite it easily anymore, but I type it in seconds.
The important thing though from an entropy perspective is that whether you are making a story for your passphrase or for your password, the story comes second. Generate the password / passphrase and then create a story, this assures that each possibility is equal as I mentioned earlier (if they are unequal, there is less entropy).
Of course, I recognise that even with a good memorisation technique, passphrases still beat out f%8D( from a learning curve, ease of use, and accessibility standpoint. The reason I've stuck with the ugly and relatively short passwords is purely so I can type them in as fast as possible!
Re: New 25 GPU Monster Devours Passwords In Seconds
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm kind of rusty on algorithmic information theory (I'm an artist, heh)! Is there such a thing as (formalized) upper limit of what we could do as far as computing combinations go? I know of Kolmogorov complexity (vaguely), but what are the hard limits and challenges of just prodding through (faster and faster as tech goes forward) combinations until success? I plan on developing a story around that and make a movie…
I read a reference someone posted somewhere once (sorry to not be more specific) that sounded pretty convincing. Apparently it takes a minimum amount of energy to flip one bit in a conventional (non quantum) computer. In order to brute force a 128 bit key, you'd need some sort of 128 bit register. Multiply the amount of energy needed per bit flip and the result implies there are never likley to be enough power plants…
Re: New 25 GPU Monster Devours Passwords In Seconds
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
I fell victim to that once, when I hadn't "upgraded" the re-used throwaway password I'd used to register to see what some random website was. When my throwaway password got exposed (in cleartext facepalm! ) by PerlMonks, within a day or so someone had used it to send Acai Berry spam through my Twitter account (which 'd completely forgotten was still using a shared/throwaway password even though it had turned from "so…
Interesting. It is certainly needed to "upgrade" passwords sometimes. My beef with 1PW is that it's a single point of failure, not to mention inconvenience/risks. For example, what if I need to check gmail in a trusted, but borrowed device. The main issue I think is that using only one password for security is insufficient (but not necessarily go for a 2-factor auth)
Re: New 25 GPU Monster Devours Passwords In Seconds
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
I fell victim to that once, when I hadn't "upgraded" the re-used throwaway password I'd used to register to see what some random website was. When my throwaway password got exposed (in cleartext facepalm! ) by PerlMonks, within a day or so someone had used it to send Acai Berry spam through my Twitter account (which 'd completely forgotten was still using a shared/throwaway password even though it had turned from "so…
Interesting. It is certainly needed to "upgrade" passwords sometimes. My beef with 1PW is that it's a single point of failure, not to mention inconvenience/risks. For example, what if I need to check gmail in a trusted, but borrowed device. The main issue I think is that using only one password for security is insufficient (but not necessarily go for a 2-factor auth)
(Though in the complete disaster scenario, I have stored in my wallet, as suggested by Bruce Schenier, the app-password my phones use and the list of backup verification codes - unlabelled so a casual thief _probably_ won't know what to do with them... I've also got irregular exports of everything and the 1Password passphrase and phone PIN printed out and stored in an envelope in the office safe. I _think_ I'm sufficiently paranoid about all that...)
Re: New 25 GPU Monster Devours Passwords In Seconds
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
I fell victim to that once, when I hadn't "upgraded" the re-used throwaway password I'd used to register to see what some random website was. When my throwaway password got exposed (in cleartext facepalm! ) by PerlMonks, within a day or so someone had used it to send Acai Berry spam through my Twitter account (which 'd completely forgotten was still using a shared/throwaway password even though it had turned from "so…
I think twitter nowadays is far from being an unimportant account.
Re: New 25 GPU Monster Devours Passwords In Seconds
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I read a reference someone posted somewhere once (sorry to not be more specific) that sounded pretty convincing. Apparently it takes a minimum amount of energy to flip one bit in a conventional (non quantum) computer. In order to brute force a 128 bit key, you'd need some sort of 128 bit register. Multiply the amount of energy needed per bit flip and the result implies there are never likley to be enough power plants…
I'm mapping through all the concepts I need and try to grasp, at least, basic knowledge about it. It helps I'm math literate (to an extent), but I still have a long way to go before I have a believable premise (+ a magic/unknown factor to make an interesting story) before I contact an expert in information theory to make it even more believable. I suspect this will be the king of "nerd" movies, but I don't care - it'…
Re: New 25 GPU Monster Devours Passwords In Seconds
#90The problem with all of this is that security specialists (of which I am one, guilty as charged) have historically campaigned for more complex passwords. This worked well for conventional (non-clustered, non-accelerated) password cracking mechanisms. Sadly, this starts to fall apart with accelerated and/or distributed cracking. On average I crack a few hundred passwords a week, and more often than not organisations h…
Since reading that xkcd, I use phrases as passwords, using a simple Ruby script to generate them: w = File.readlines('/usr/share/dict/words').map { |w| w.chomp }.reject { |w| w !~ /^[A-Za-z]+$/ }; 3.times { print w[rand * w.size] }; puts I generally get an easy to remember password after about 3 tries. The biggest issue I have with this is typing in passwords on mobile devices.