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Leaving Microsoft

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Re: Leaving Microsoft

#81

Post by zak_mc_kracken »

modersky wrote: post #79
eta_carinae wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are saying that 0.01% is insignificant but 0.03% is not, then you might have gone off a little bit too far on the fan boy scale.

Just take absolute numbers: According to indeed, there are over 1000 open jobs mentioning Scala in the US, and over 750 in the UK. Taken together, the number of open Scala jobs in both countries exceeds the number of open Groovy jobs. It's still small compared to Java jobs (to be precise 1.5% in the US, close to 3% in the UK), but Java is by far the most demanded language, so this is not surprising. To say there is n…

> To say there is no pick-up in adoption of functional languages is disingenuous, IMO.

The question is not about pick up (there is some, 0.01% to 0.03%, according to indeed.com) but whether that pick up is significant.

Re: Leaving Microsoft

#82

Post by [deleted] »

modersky wrote: post #79
eta_carinae wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are saying that 0.01% is insignificant but 0.03% is not, then you might have gone off a little bit too far on the fan boy scale.

Just take absolute numbers: According to indeed, there are over 1000 open jobs mentioning Scala in the US, and over 750 in the UK. Taken together, the number of open Scala jobs in both countries exceeds the number of open Groovy jobs. It's still small compared to Java jobs (to be precise 1.5% in the US, close to 3% in the UK), but Java is by far the most demanded language, so this is not surprising. To say there is n…

[deleted]

Re: Leaving Microsoft

#83

Post by vorg »

modersky wrote: post #79
eta_carinae wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are saying that 0.01% is insignificant but 0.03% is not, then you might have gone off a little bit too far on the fan boy scale.

Just take absolute numbers: According to indeed, there are over 1000 open jobs mentioning Scala in the US, and over 750 in the UK. Taken together, the number of open Scala jobs in both countries exceeds the number of open Groovy jobs. It's still small compared to Java jobs (to be precise 1.5% in the US, close to 3% in the UK), but Java is by far the most demanded language, so this is not surprising. To say there is n…

And most of those job ads mentioning "Groovy" are for using groovy as an add-on to Java, while those mentioning "Scala" are usually for using Scala as the primary language.

Re: Leaving Microsoft

#84

Post by grogs »

bad_user wrote: post #66
smenyp wrote: post #4

FYI, Simon Marlow is incredibly big in the Haskell community and is the leading expert in Multi core parallelism via STMs in Haskell. Some of the work he has done for the GHC compiler is frankly fantastic. This is incredibly big news in the Haskell world. The FP community is starting to break boundaries with the industry in the last 5 years with Clojure (and Scala's functional support). Currently, FB seems to use has…

> with Clojure (and Scala's functional support) There's this perception that Scala is less FP than a language like Clojure and I don't understand why, when in my (albeit limited) experience, I found the contrary to be true. This impression that's perpetuated is IMHO only folklore coming from people that only played around with these languages superficially. Scala feels more like a functional programming language to m…

I think idiomatic Scala code should be FP. And although you can just quite Java-esque code in a slightly more concise way in Scala; I do think that people are starting to see that Scala is more than that - it introduces new ideas and idioms.

Re: Leaving Microsoft

#85

Post by vorg »

bad_user wrote: post #66
smenyp wrote: post #4

FYI, Simon Marlow is incredibly big in the Haskell community and is the leading expert in Multi core parallelism via STMs in Haskell. Some of the work he has done for the GHC compiler is frankly fantastic. This is incredibly big news in the Haskell world. The FP community is starting to break boundaries with the industry in the last 5 years with Clojure (and Scala's functional support). Currently, FB seems to use has…

> with Clojure (and Scala's functional support) There's this perception that Scala is less FP than a language like Clojure and I don't understand why, when in my (albeit limited) experience, I found the contrary to be true. This impression that's perpetuated is IMHO only folklore coming from people that only played around with these languages superficially. Scala feels more like a functional programming language to m…

Scala and Clojure, the two leading alternative languages for the JVM, certainly have different strengths:

* Scala is statically typed, even using parametric types, while Clojure is dynamically typed

* Scala enables auto-currying when methods are defined in the Haskell style, while Clojure focuses on variadic functions

* Scala has easy-to-read syntax, with easy-to-remember operator precedences, while Clojure has syntactic macros instead

* Scala uses actors for concurrency, while Clojure uses its other approaches

Perhaps we shouldn't be considering them competitors but instead look for ways to more easily use them together, utilizing the strengths of each.

We could use Clojure macros to generate Scala source, e.g.

  (defn object-main [s]
    (str "object " pgm-nm "{\r\ndef main(args: Array[String]){\r\n" s "}\r\n}\r\n"))
  (defn println [s]
    (str "println(" s ")\r\n"))
  (defn call-method [obj meth p1]
    (str "(" (str obj) ")." meth "(" (str p1) ")"))
  (object-main
    (println
      (call-method 1 "+" 2)))
We could create a whole library of such Clojure functions to generate Scala code, which would give us syntactic macros for the Scala ecosystem.

And when Scala AST macros are mature, we could use them to generate Clojure code.

Using Scala and Clojure together would bring the best of both worlds to the JVM. Wouldn't that just be the grooviest?!

Re: Leaving Microsoft

#87

Post by microtonal »

tinco wrote: post #72
Someone wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not bet on that. Utrecht ( http://www.cs.uu.nl/wiki/UHC ) is in the Netherlands, too. I also expect/guess that it has more CS students than Nijmegen

So every dutch university teaches a language they themselves wrote the compiler for. The university of twente used to teach FP in a miranda dialect called amanda, which ofcourse was developed at utwente :p

The University of Groningen uses Haskell and Hugs for their functional programming course ;). So, there seem to be exceptions to that rule.

Re: Leaving Microsoft

#88

Post by tibbe »

eta_carinae wrote: post #40
smenyp wrote: post #4

FYI, Simon Marlow is incredibly big in the Haskell community and is the leading expert in Multi core parallelism via STMs in Haskell. Some of the work he has done for the GHC compiler is frankly fantastic. This is incredibly big news in the Haskell world. The FP community is starting to break boundaries with the industry in the last 5 years with Clojure (and Scala's functional support). Currently, FB seems to use has…

> This is incredibly big news in the Haskell world. I'm puzzled why you think this is good news for Haskell. The lead developer and architect of GHC and authority in parallel Haskell is announcing that he's taking a position that won't allow him to spend much time working on GHC, and he might even stop using Haskell completely. It's great news for Simon but terrible news for Haskell.

According to Bryan O'Sullivan (bos) he will use Haskell at Facebook.

http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/13m8eu/haskell_leav...

Re: Leaving Microsoft

#89

Post by microtonal »

creatio wrote: post #54
chriseidhof wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Utrecht University has some of the world's leading Haskell researchers, I think it is taught in Groningen as well. In Nijmegen they teach Clean, which is very similar to Haskell.

Did not know that about Utrecht Uni.

http://www.cs.uu.nl/wiki/UHC
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