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Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

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Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#81

Post by ceejayoz »

hilariously wrote: post #79
ceejayoz wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that include “untreated suicidal ideation”?

Yep, as someone who suffers from depression and suicidal ideation regularly its been made very clear to me on multiple occasions that I would rather be in this state than interface with involuntary committal. I don't know what points you are looking to score here.

I have several loved ones in the same situation, including two who've wound up in hospital in this way. I'm glad they did.

Fun? No. But better than dying.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#82

Post by retired »

mothballed wrote: post #39
timcobb wrote: post #32

It's telling, IMO, that Western cultures deals with suicidality with hotlines you can call. It's like some joke from gonzo journalism come to fruition. I don't know what the answer is, but as a person who's been suicidal, for me it wasn't a hotline. It's even more fitting, if not kind of perfect, that said hotlines farm your data and sell it. :chef's kiss: what else is there to say. Like just about everything else, c…

I've heard the Dutch one is is a little better. The ones in the USA aren't likely to do much more than call police to put a mental hold on you, during which the hospital will rack up so many bills that it would make anyone suicidal. And then yay, your gun rights gone forever, so if you are suicidal in part because you live in a dangerous impoverished shithole good luck defending yourself afterwards!

In The Netherlands you can be involuntarily committed to a mental hospital due to risk of suicide, still get a weapons license, buy half a dozen guns and then go on a shooting rampage killing 7 and wounding 17 (Alphen a/d Rijn shooting, 2011).

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#83

Post by timcobb »

throw0101c wrote: post #52
timcobb wrote: post #32

It's telling, IMO, that Western cultures deals with suicidality with hotlines you can call. It's like some joke from gonzo journalism come to fruition. I don't know what the answer is, but as a person who's been suicidal, for me it wasn't a hotline. It's even more fitting, if not kind of perfect, that said hotlines farm your data and sell it. :chef's kiss: what else is there to say. Like just about everything else, c…

"Young adult suicide rates dropped after U.S. launched 988 hotline": * https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/988-crisis-hotlin... "Suicide deaths dropped 11% from projected rate in the first two years of the revamped lifeline" * https://www.statnews.com/2026/04/22/988-hotline-linked-11-pe...

Yes, they seem to work for many people. I don't mean to belittle that, I guess that is good. But, I'm not sure how that's interesting because "something works for somebody" is true for just about every category.

For example, some people want to work at Palantir and find it interesting that some executive named Steve Cohen runs the AC at 60 degrees and eats ice cubes all day to aid cognition[0]. There's a very wide diversity of people out there, so the fact that some find this appealing is not interesting or surprising.

So, the question, in my mind, is less that something works for somebody, and more about the broader meaning of this civilizational function.

[0] https://nabeelqu.substack.com/p/reflections-on-palantir (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41855006)

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#84

Post by Spoom »

simonw wrote: post #60

"Dutch suicide prevention hotline shares visitor data with tech companies" is certainly one way of saying "Dutch suicide prevention hotline website uses Google Analytics".

I thought the same thing but it's still not a good look. The big tech companies offering this sort of thing should probably find ways to give better guarantees about data isolation, even if that requires e.g. clients paying additional fees.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#86

Post by vanschelven »

simonw wrote: post #60

"Dutch suicide prevention hotline shares visitor data with tech companies" is certainly one way of saying "Dutch suicide prevention hotline website uses Google Analytics".

Google Analytics as well as Microsoft, which indeed makes "tech companies". What are you implying here really?

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#87

Post by vanviegen »

mothballed wrote: post #55
gowld wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hotline is isn't "selling" the data. The hotline installed analytics software to help them do their job. Do "non-Western culture have a better solution to suicidality?

A quick sweep of the lowest 20 countries in suicide and the most obvious thing that can be teased out is they're by vast majority extremely conservative societies where family and religion (mostly Islam) would likely dominate the goals of any person living there (with a couple exceptions). Only about half of the lowest 10 have any sort of functional welfare or state support programs. I wonder if having a pretty rigid…

Suicide is not an attractive option if you believe that you'll be eternally punished for it in the after life.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#88

Post by graemep »

mothballed wrote: post #55
gowld wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hotline is isn't "selling" the data. The hotline installed analytics software to help them do their job. Do "non-Western culture have a better solution to suicidality?

A quick sweep of the lowest 20 countries in suicide and the most obvious thing that can be teased out is they're by vast majority extremely conservative societies where family and religion (mostly Islam) would likely dominate the goals of any person living there (with a couple exceptions). Only about half of the lowest 10 have any sort of functional welfare or state support programs. I wonder if having a pretty rigid…

I think its very hard to draw conclusions. The country with the lowest rate is majority Christian and AFAIK is not extremely conservative: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r...

A second list on that page gives different numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r...

In between is a table that shows the suicide rate is much lower in "upper middle income" countries than in either poorer or richer countries. I suspect that is a pointer. Affluent enough not to be constantly struggling, but different in some ways (urbanisation? materialism? isolation?) from the rich countries.

You also need to look at other factors. Conservative countries have younger populations, so you need to correct for that. Not all countries have equally accurate statistics.

I think conservative countries may have an advantage because of larger families, extended families, fewer people being single (and less isolated if they are) etc. but it needs more data. There are some pretty conservative countries with high rates.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#89

Post by repelsteeltje »

caymanjim wrote: post #72
simonw wrote: post #60

"Dutch suicide prevention hotline shares visitor data with tech companies" is certainly one way of saying "Dutch suicide prevention hotline website uses Google Analytics".

You say that like there's a difference. You say that like the detail of data that Google Analytics farms is acceptable. You say that like what Google does with the data is acceptable. Just because companies want the data doesn't mean they deserve it.

Totally agree that Google should not be on a service like this in any shape or form.

But "sharing data" does somewhat suggest they are sharing the payload, the actual conversations.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#90

Post by mden »

timcobb wrote: post #83
throw0101c wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Young adult suicide rates dropped after U.S. launched 988 hotline": * https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/988-crisis-hotlin... "Suicide deaths dropped 11% from projected rate in the first two years of the revamped lifeline" * https://www.statnews.com/2026/04/22/988-hotline-linked-11-pe...

Yes, they seem to work for many people. I don't mean to belittle that, I guess that is good. But, I'm not sure how that's interesting because "something works for somebody" is true for just about every category. For example, some people want to work at Palantir and find it interesting that some executive named Steve Cohen runs the AC at 60 degrees and eats ice cubes all day to aid cognition[0]. There's a very wide di…

Can you explain what your point really was then? Belittling the idea of hotlines seemed central in your messaging and the possible exploitation of data more of a secondary thing.

It's fine to be cynical but it's also good to remember that there are real people that do care and try to improve the world as well.

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