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Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

nltimes.nl

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Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#11

Post by embedding-shape »

mettamage wrote: post #8
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #4

> Stichting 113 likely violated the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) by sharing this data. The GDPR states that extra care must be taken regarding the security of medical personal data, which includes contact with an anonymous suicide prevention hotline. This is quite sad to think about in multitude of ways :-( What I am not understanding is the case of why , why would dutch government or website do this, is…

See my comment. My hypothesis is: ignorance and apathy that results in incompetence. Using GA4 is just the normal thing right? Look in a room full of marketing experts and they will say yes or shrug. Look in a room full of tech people and you'll see all security experts and security adjacent people screaming HELL NO or simply giving a nuanced answer that ultimately comes down to "no". Some will do funny little dances…

> See my comment.

No, I refuse being told what to do.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#12

Post by mettamage »

embedding-shape wrote: post #11
mettamage wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my comment. My hypothesis is: ignorance and apathy that results in incompetence. Using GA4 is just the normal thing right? Look in a room full of marketing experts and they will say yes or shrug. Look in a room full of tech people and you'll see all security experts and security adjacent people screaming HELL NO or simply giving a nuanced answer that ultimately comes down to "no". Some will do funny little dances…

> See my comment. No, I refuse being told what to do.

It wasn't meant that way as a comment ;-)

Everything in life is optional.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#14

Post by keybored »

I have lately thought about how the only tech I am interested in now is to assist programming. Programming for programming. Eternal yak shaving. And a big part of that is that end-user digital technology is a dystopia. No, not dystopic, not going in a bad direction. Just dystopia. Vultures and thugs at every corner preying on every “convenience” and mistake that you could make.

It is also good for mindless entertainment in between the real things that sometimes happen. And listening to music.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#16

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

mettamage wrote: post #8
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #4

> Stichting 113 likely violated the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) by sharing this data. The GDPR states that extra care must be taken regarding the security of medical personal data, which includes contact with an anonymous suicide prevention hotline. This is quite sad to think about in multitude of ways :-( What I am not understanding is the case of why , why would dutch government or website do this, is…

See my comment. My hypothesis is: ignorance and apathy that results in incompetence. Using GA4 is just the normal thing right? Look in a room full of marketing experts and they will say yes or shrug. Look in a room full of tech people and you'll see all security experts and security adjacent people screaming HELL NO or simply giving a nuanced answer that ultimately comes down to "no". Some will do funny little dances…

Yes, my comment was published just one minute after yours so I only saw your comment after mine and I appreciated reading your comment (& upvoted it)

> Look in a room full of tech people and you'll see all security experts and security adjacent people screaming HELL NO or simply giving a nuanced answer that ultimately comes down to "no". Some will do funny little dances, some probably even just praying to a sun or rain god because they just lost it at that comment. I know I would.

But if that's the case, are we saying that when the website was being created, it was being created with no-one who was security expert or let alone security adjacent people?

This is what I had refused to believe because in my opinion, more due diligence within the structure should've taken place and if there was no-one competent within the team, then why not hire one who is?

I can't help but feel frustrated, this is probably gonna negatively impact people who have talked on such suicide prevention websites.

Literally these websites is to create a safe space and for a person to be heard, if one introduces the concept of tracking or even feeling tracked, I can't help but feel frustrated as to why, why not hire people who know about security especially for such websites and especially with these laws. I am unable to understand this to be more specific.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#17

Post by antipurist »

> This website uses cookies > We use cookies to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features

I know there are some services that send GDPR data removal requests on your behalf. I wonder if there are any similar services that send messages like "Why the hell do you need these cookies?" to website operators.

I hardly ever see these cookie banners as my browser blocks most of them, but I still think it would be great to rub the idea of "Your website doesn't need any non-technical cookies" in website operators' faces.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#18

Post by jeroenhd »

mettamage wrote: post #3

Yea this is bad. I do want to mention though, while this is bad, I feel like we're singling out a site. Fact is, I've seen more places where this doesn't happen. Though, not at places that have such a strong social mission as this one. And while I've done my best to work at those places to get it fixed, there is a lot of inertia and simply ignorance. I'm not talking about small places either. I'm talking about non-te…

Other websites with similar societal impacts and responsibilities have already been covered in Dutch news before, from governments to health information websites to healthcare providers.

The 113 suicide prevention hotline works together with professionals but it's not an official health care provider as far as I know.

There are probably plenty of similar websites with similar problems, but 113 is well known within the Netherlands so it's a poignant example to use in the media.

Getting media coverage on this will probably make these organizations do better, at least until the next conversion improvement marketeer gets access to the backend.

Their chat service uses something called "sprinklr.com", blocked by my filters automatically, which calls itself "The definitive AI‑native platform for extraordinary customer experiences".

I suppose there's always the phone number.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#20

Post by latexr »

keybored wrote: post #14

I have lately thought about how the only tech I am interested in now is to assist programming. Programming for programming. Eternal yak shaving. And a big part of that is that end-user digital technology is a dystopia. No, not dystopic, not going in a bad direction. Just dystopia. Vultures and thugs at every corner preying on every “convenience” and mistake that you could make. It is also good for mindless entertainm…

> I have lately thought about how the only tech I am interested in now is to assist programming. Programming for programming. Eternal yak shaving.

Could you give some specific examples?

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