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"Anyone else out there vibe circuit-building?"

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Re: "Anyone else out there vibe circuit-building?"

#81

This brings up a much larger discussion. How bad are LLMs at engineering? Would you trust one to build a high voltage circuit? How about a bridge?

The trick is, LLMs are only as good as they are at writing code because of all the publicly available source code, tutorials, blog posts and Q&A it can slurp up.

Re: "Anyone else out there vibe circuit-building?"

#82
post #70

If you have solid domain knowledge, LLMs are a force multiplier for electronic design. You just have to have a spider sense for “this is going off the rails”. Other than that, it does useful circuit review, part selection (or suggestions for alternative parts you didn’t know existed), and is usually usefully skeptical. It’s also great at quick back of the napkin “can I just use a smt ceramic here?” Type calculations,…

This. LLM's are still not good enough to trust for Vibe-Circuit building - a circuit re-design is a lot more cost and time than a code change - But they can get you over so many hurdles getting you to the right references in forums and datasheets quickly, I suspect it wont be too long before they can make schematics and PCB's that are 90% there, but currently much more useful in the firmware design.

I am now more of a hobbyist than a professional and LLM's allow me to get results quicker, for example over Christmas I replaced my Pioneer stereo with a new custom motherboard, re-using the class AB analog parts and all the switches and the VFD Display. LLM helped me do it a lot quicker and gave me a couple of novel options, write up here => https://rodyne.com/?p=3380

Re: "Anyone else out there vibe circuit-building?"

#83
post #71
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The core issue isn't that LLMs are bad at circuits, it's that we're asking them to do novel design when they should be doing selection and integration. I don't want to detract from what you're building, but I'm puzzled by this sentence. It very much sounds like the problem is that they're bad at circuits and that you're working around this problem by making them choose from a catalog. Try that for code. "The proble…

At what level of abstraction does programming become a process of selection and integration?

Why get philosophical and not just deal with the reality that 95% of the industry are dealing with languages that just compile down to C? We are already at some of the highest levels of abstraction thus far in the history of the trade.

Re: "Anyone else out there vibe circuit-building?"

#84
post #12

What would stop us from using something like LTspice to validate the circuit before risking physical components? This seems ~identical to the situation where we can use a compiler or parser to return syntax errors to the agent in a feedback loop. I don't know exactly what the tool calling surface would look like, but I feel like this could work.

I'm working on this. It works pretty well. The main issue I'm working out right now (which has proven very difficult) is the auto-placing and auto-routing on a multi-layer pcb.

Re: "Anyone else out there vibe circuit-building?"

#85

Why, yes I am. I know Ben is having some fun, perhaps making a valid point, with the burning component on the breadboard. I think it does underscore a difference between software vibing and hardware vibing—crash vs. fire. But in fact vibe-breadboarding has drawn me deeper into the electronics hobby. I have learned more about op-amps and analog computing in the past two months in large part thanks to Gemini and ChatGP…

I just wanted to vote with my feet and say that my experience echoes yours closely.

Modern coding agents have a remarkable grasp of circuit design and the net result is that they keep pushing me to learn more, faster.

I do find that I often have to specify that I only want parts that are "active on Digikey" because otherwise it will recommend obsolete parts. However, I consider this just like reviewing code generated by an LLM. You don't get a pass on reading datasheets or verifying statements.

I recently had GPT 5.2 spit out a progression of circuits that can amplify a dynamic mic signal to line level, simple to complex, with the intention of finally learning how good amplifiers work. Adding transformers and gain stages with the different OPA family parts and hearing the hum disappear and noise floor drop is the best kind of education.

A tip: BAT54SW specifically is the best part for protecting your pins.

Re: "Anyone else out there vibe circuit-building?"

#86

I've been vibe circuit building since the 1970s, but that's not what this is about, is it? ;-) Years ago, at Pumping Station One in Chicago, I watched someone struggle with the driving of multiple LEDs from an Arduino in his project. He wondered why the LEDs got dimmer when more than one was lit. I looked at the original schematic, and what he had built, and noticed a difference. The original design had a resistor on…

Had this same experience back when I first learned to program a PIC microcontroller. You really shouldn't be driving LEDs directly off IO pins anyways. I think the digitalness of IO pins also lends itself to not thinking about the underlying circuitry and coming at it from a software lens.

Re: "Anyone else out there vibe circuit-building?"

#87
post #74

Been working on this exact problem for a while now. The core issue isn't that LLMs are bad at circuits, it's that we're asking them to do novel design when they should be doing selection and integration. My project ( https://phaestus.app/blog ) takes a different approach: pre-validated circuit blocks on a fixed 12.7mm grid with standardized bus structures. The LLM picks which blocks you need and where they go, but th…

If I understand what you are doing this sounds like a great idea. For example a part like the ADS7953 ADC comes with layout recommendations, including the design of the ground plane underneath the chip and the placement of the decoupling caps. A more extreme example would be an esp32 and all of it's supporting parts, including the keepout area on the PCB for wifi transmission. I really want to assemble circuits out o…

So this isn't exactly putting pre-wired up blocks together, my intent behind phaestus is to essentially to get you from an idea to a prototype tangible product as fast as possible.

I'm targeting sub 5mins from first prompt to manufacturing exports, stl files for enclosure, gerbers for pcb manuf, bin file for firmware, bom for pcba.

E.g. if you wanted something that doesn't exist, but don't have the time, the skills or it's just not worth it. One silly example I had was a colour e-ink selfie fridge magnet. As far as I know, that doesn't exist, I could make it, but I can't be arsed. (so I could suprise my partner with a selfie, a picture of our dog, or anything, just a little treat for her for putting up with me).

With this, it'll pull in a ESP32-S3 Sense Xiao board, an e-ink module, a battery connector and a usb c charge connector. glue it all together, and there we go.

Should work if you wanted a rudimentary zigbee mesh communicator, pulls in a C6, a touchscreen, battery, probably a physical button or two. Once that block library starts filling up, it'll become more and more capable.

However, what I suspect you're after is more aligned with https://www.circuitsnips.com

I built circuitsnips to be the 'thingiverse' for electronics schematics.

Unfortunately it's been a bit neglected since so much of my free time has gone into phaestus, I did have great intentions to kicad up some official reference designs, so I can get rid of the github scraped bootstrap data as that was the sticky point both ethically and for the quality of the schematics, but there are only so many hours in a day.

Re: "Anyone else out there vibe circuit-building?"

#88

I've been vibe circuit building since the 1970s, but that's not what this is about, is it? ;-) Years ago, at Pumping Station One in Chicago, I watched someone struggle with the driving of multiple LEDs from an Arduino in his project. He wondered why the LEDs got dimmer when more than one was lit. I looked at the original schematic, and what he had built, and noticed a difference. The original design had a resistor on…

Had this same experience back when I first learned to program a PIC microcontroller. You really shouldn't be driving LEDs directly off IO pins anyways. I think the digitalness of IO pins also lends itself to not thinking about the underlying circuitry and coming at it from a software lens.

It depends. Many modern microcontrollers are perfectly fine driving LEDs directly off IO pins if the pin specs say it is rated for sufficient current (like 20mA). However, older ones like ESP8266 can only do like 2mA and the 8051 even less. Or you run into a total power budget issue if your are running too many pins. Also, some IO pins are perfectly fine at sinking current to ground but aren't suited for sourcing current, in which case the LED would be directly connected to an external high voltage and the IO pin would simply be switching to ground or not.

Re: "Anyone else out there vibe circuit-building?"

#89

> Thought for 37s > ... > Ah - that makes sense, that's why it's on fire oh how very relatable, I've had similar moments. I knew about SEDs (smoke emitting diodes) and LERs (light emitting resistors), but what do you call the inductor version?

Smoke Emitting Choke?

Re: "Anyone else out there vibe circuit-building?"

#90
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand what you are doing this sounds like a great idea. For example a part like the ADS7953 ADC comes with layout recommendations, including the design of the ground plane underneath the chip and the placement of the decoupling caps. A more extreme example would be an esp32 and all of it's supporting parts, including the keepout area on the PCB for wifi transmission. I really want to assemble circuits out o…

So this isn't exactly putting pre-wired up blocks together, my intent behind phaestus is to essentially to get you from an idea to a prototype tangible product as fast as possible. I'm targeting sub 5mins from first prompt to manufacturing exports, stl files for enclosure, gerbers for pcb manuf, bin file for firmware, bom for pcba. E.g. if you wanted something that doesn't exist, but don't have the time, the skills o…

Thanks for the link, that is very impressive.
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