just one more layer of tooling bro, just one more layer
Its the opposite actually. Its about vertical integration of all tools and using the same foundational libraries in all of them. So its just vite calling oxlint built on oxc.
Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web
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Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web
#82I'm very happy with Vite, this toolchain on top of it looks useful too, I would have preferred all that to just be part of vite (similar to bun) but I guess there are good reasons to keep the scope of core vite smaller?
Immediate business benefit that comes to mind is that you can make it proprietary/"source available" instead of FOSS and subsequently charge for it. You could charge for it while remaining FOSS and one big bundle in Vite, but businesses tend to prefer the first route for better or worse.
Oh I see, I missed the pricing section at the end, that does make sense. I had assumed it would be another FOSS tool.
Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Using Java/.NET with server side rendered HTML + webpack/react for dynamic components (which nearly are non-existent with modern CSS). Works great.
Same here, since 2001. It pains me that so many SaaS go for Next.js based SDKs, but at least it is the closest to Spring/Quarkus/ASP.NET in spirit.
If I had my way I would still be writing ASP.NET WebForms, but the market decided to move. I don't even know if it still works.
Hot take but: it took 20 years for Next.js to catch up to 10% of WebForms offered.
But if people want whatever Next.js offers to build their copycat SaaS with shadcn/ui, so who am I to argue.
Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…
No it's not out of date. It's very much the reality. Every new tool is just one more thing added on top. When I have to do something in a JS/TS repo at work it's always a surprise which epoch of JS hype stuff I find. Today I fix ESLint warnings, tomorrow it's Biome errors, then I need to figure out how to override dependencies in pnpm, but oh no there's a some bug in Bun now. Did I forget the 10249120491412e12 config…
Greybeard (35) here.
When these cynical takes were crafted, Angular, AngularJS, Aurelia, Backbone, Ember, Knockout, React and Vue were all competing for mindshare, with new members joining/leaving that group every month (anyone remember OJ.js and Google FOAM?) being compiled by traceur, 6to5, the Google Closure Compiler and others from (Iced) CoffeeScript, TypeScript, ES6, Atscript, Livescript and Closurescript. We had two fucking major package registries (npm and bower) for literally no reason and we’d use both in every project. We had like 4 ways of doing modules.
Today the stack has stabilized around React and Vue, with a couple perennial challengers like Suede in the background. Vite and Webpack have been the two main build toolchains for years now. We discarded all of those languages except for TypeScript (and new ES features if you want them, but there are fewer changes every year). There are a couple package management tools, but they’re cross-compatible-ish and all pull from the same registry.
So does the fact that it’s not NEARLY as bad as it was in 2015 mean that people in 2025 aren’t allowed to complain? Yes. Yes it does.
Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, Rome failed because they run out of money while the project weren't finished yet. While Vite+ seems to have most of the things done already, so I'd consider it a success for now, what is left to see if that the companies using Vite already are willing to pay for Vite+.
Rome also failed because it was attempting to build everything (transpiler/bundler/linter/etc) from scratch. It was also unfortunately timed. When they started they were competing against webpack, but right around the start of the project compilers written in more performant languages like ESBuld and SWC start to take off and out compete Rome before it even got off the ground.
TIming was hardly an issue since they didn't produce anything important. moreover, their first focus was on formatter, which can be as low priority for any dev as it gets.
Even Vite+ is focused on vite and rolldown first, and formatter last.
Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You could interpret some of the graphs as vite oss isn't getting rolldown Vite already has rolldown support in the current version, it's just in alpha/test stage.
It seems to just be a plan at the moment although like you say you can test it out: https://vite.dev/guide/rolldown.html#how-to-try-rolldown Nothing is keeping them to this plan other though, I hope they do follow through. That would make the graph on the page misleading in the other direction though as the speed feature would be included in the non plus version. I want to also say I'm a happy vite user (and the othe…
Nothing changes on VoidZero's commitment to open source. Vite 8 is still set to get Rolldown. I mentioned that also in my talks (e.g. https://youtu.be/fnyK-xXxVKU?t=3027)
Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web
#87Interesting, I am a heavy user of vite today and the featureset is interesting but I don't really understand how it will differ from "normal" vite and why I would pay for it.
On twitter, they said that there will be an announcement on monday. so we will find out then. previously (i.e. before current viteconf), Evan had said that existing OSS (vite and below) will remain OSS. only newer tooling will be monetised
Yes, existing tools are MIT and will stay MIT. Nothing changed thre.
Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Evan You wrote on Twitter that source code will be accessible to everyone, but not under a full permissible license. He also wrote that they have no plans to sell any code licenses.
> they have no plans to sell any code licenses Every for-profit is subject to being sold to someone with different plans. If the license is not fully open, it's not smart to expect the licensing terms to get worse.
Selling access isn't really helpful there. The target group (companies) have to care about licenses at some point, while it will be free for OSS, individuals and the community.
Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web
#89Interesting, I am a heavy user of vite today and the featureset is interesting but I don't really understand how it will differ from "normal" vite and why I would pay for it.
I was on the conference where it was announced. They plan to finish rewriting all the eslint/tsc/prettier/bundler/nx/minifier stuff in rust and give it single config instead of all of those tools having its own ast parser, alias rules and 5 incompatible babel versions. If anything, FE tooling starts looking like it moves to more sane place. Also Anthony Fu is cool
Yes but is it worth paying a monthly subscription in order to avoid some config files? I donno. Then you will have the problem in if things go wrong or if you do something very different it's closed source so it won't be easily fixed or prioritized since there is no community.
Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rome also failed because it was attempting to build everything (transpiler/bundler/linter/etc) from scratch. It was also unfortunately timed. When they started they were competing against webpack, but right around the start of the project compilers written in more performant languages like ESBuld and SWC start to take off and out compete Rome before it even got off the ground.
TIming was hardly an issue since they didn't produce anything important. moreover, their first focus was on formatter, which can be as low priority for any dev as it gets. Even Vite+ is focused on vite and rolldown first, and formatter last.
And that is on purpose!