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Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

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Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#81

Post by mr_mitm »

ForceOfEntropy wrote: post #59
thadt wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would PGP help in the long run? If client side scanning is mandated for everything then the natural place for it to wind up is in the OS. Once your OS is scanning all the things, your privacy is finished - pretty good or otherwise.

In that case you could an Arduino, Raspberry Pi, or similar to write and convert the message. The converted msg can then be sent over USB, wifi, etc to the computer

But how do we then protect our messages to less tech savvy people? Encryption must be effortless and usable by the masses, or it will be almost pointless.

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#83

Post by raffael_de »

weinzierl wrote: post #69
nisten wrote: post #22

I think a good way to shame politicians that push this type of erosion of civil liberties is to label it at gestapoware.

Besides that this is likely a criminal offense in Germany[1] we tried it 16 years ago with "Zensursula" and you can see how that turned out. [1] §86a StGB "Use of symbols of unconstitutional organizations" applies also to words, not just symbols in the strict sense. It is also enforced in broad coarse strokes for example on the usage of the swastika inside a red prohibition circle (the one with a diagonal bar). EDIT:…

This or §90a ... anyway, better keep your bathrobe in reach in case they come visit you at dawn.

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#84

Post by irusensei »

nickslaughter02 wrote: post #71
AAAAaccountAAAA wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely not an EU only thing. China, Russia and such have been doing this for years. There have been attempts to introduce it in US (EARN IT Act) as well, and the current regime there might very well end up doing that. Australia has also been pretty authoritarian what it comes to this kind of things.

I don't understand your response and the downvotes. I'm saying Chat Control will spread to other countries. I'm aware of attempts from other countries. Add France and Sweden to your list.

[flagged]

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#85

Post by mr_mitm »

kekqqq wrote: post #4

No one should remove from us the right to privacy in chat rooms. Otherwise, PGP might become cool again, or I bet that there will be new ways to chat without mass surveillance.

PGP will never ever see mass adoption. It's too complicated and nothing will fix that. If chat control succeeds, a handful of nerds might be able to protect their comms, but mass encryption as we have it today will be dead. I like how nobody can read my chats with my mom or my landlord and would prefer it stays that way. The average user simply does not care enough to jump through a single additional hoop.

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#86

Post by mr_mitm »

reorder9695 wrote: post #19
bigyabai wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise, PGP might become cool People need convenient access to PGP. If their App Store removes all PGP apps then they might have to upload their privatekey to a PWA. And then no one's any better off. If the everyman is forced to choose between being surveilled or using PGP, I reckon I know what he'd choose regardless.

There's no reason email clients can't make PGP keys easy, proton actually makes it quite easy to add a PGP key for an email address.

And what's stopping the government from forcing proton to hand over private keys or else?

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#87

Post by jMyles »

roywiggins wrote: post #61
jMyles wrote: post #55

It's great that signal / open whisper engage in the political situation and the pressure on these states. We also need to be sure that signal / open whisper / matrix / telegram / everybody continues to make end-to-end encryption available regardless of what politicians say. Math is bigger than human affairs. There is no shame in breaking laws that prohibit math.

Chat Control doesn't prohibit you from using whatever encryption you want, it mandates that your phone snitch on any plaintext that it has access to.

Yeah, I see this argument all over HN. And in a sense it's true that the affront here isn't against math per se, but against general purpose computing.

But ultimately, the right to general purpose computing (ie, the right to run a program that doesn't snitch the plaintext) is the same as the right to engage in the underlying mathematics.

I think it's a distinction without a meaningful difference.

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#88

Post by dinoqqq »

killparty wrote: post #5

Handle jetzt: https://chat-kontrolle.eu/index.php/2025/10/02/der-kampf-geg... Info: https://netzpolitik.org/2025/eu-ueberwachungsplaene-die-chat... "Wichtige Stimmen wie Amnesty International, Reporter ohne Grenzen und der Chaos Computer Club appellieren eindringlich an die Bundesregierung, die Chatkontrolle zu verhindern. Sie warnen vor einem Angriff auf die Pressefreiheit, einem IT-Sicherheitsalptraum und einer Gef…

Politicians to reach out to in Germany, with a template email:

poststelle@bmi.bund.de, poststelle@bmjv.bund.de, info@bmds.bund.de, baerbel.bas@bundestag.de, lars.klingbeil@bundestag.de, friedrich.merz@bundestag.de, landesleitung@csu-bayern.de, fraktion@cducsu.de, matthias.miersch@bundestag.de, sebastian.fiedler@bundestag.de, alexander.throm@bundestag.de, johannes.schaetzl@bundestag.de, ralph.brinkhaus@bundestag.de

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,

ich wende mich heute an Sie, um meine große Sorge über die geplante Einführung der sogenannten „Chatkontrolle“ auszudrücken.

Die flächendeckende Überwachung privater Kommunikation stellt einen massiven Eingriff in unsere Grundrechte dar. Sie gefährdet die Privatsphäre aller Bürgerinnen und Bürger und untergräbt zentrale Prinzipien eines demokratischen Rechtsstaates. Der Schutz der Vertraulichkeit von Kommunikation ist ein unverzichtbarer Bestandteil unserer freiheitlichen Gesellschaft.

Zudem zeigen zahlreiche Expertinnen und Experten auf, dass das flächendeckende Scannen privater Nachrichten zur Bekämpfung von Kindesmissbrauchsdarstellungen nicht wirksam ist. Stattdessen schwächt eine solche Maßnahme die Sicherheit digitaler Kommunikation insgesamt und schafft gefährliche Überwachungsinfrastrukturen, die leicht missbraucht werden können.

Ich bitte Sie daher eindringlich, sich bei der entsprechenden Abstimmung klar gegen die Einführung der Chatkontrolle auszusprechen und sich für den Schutz der Bürgerrechte und der Privatsphäre einzusetzen.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#89

Post by [deleted] »

roywiggins wrote: post #56
munchlax wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end it's saying you can learn all the math you want except certain formulas. Just not those. Good luck with that

You're welcome to run any algorithm you want with paper and pencil, but you might not be able to run them on your devices that are allowed to talk to cellular networks. Communications that look encrypted can also be straightforwardly flagged and logged for a closer look, perhaps keeping a closer watch on any cleartext messages, metadata that invariably leaks, etc

[deleted]

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#90

Post by Asmod4n »

_9ptr wrote: post #62
okanat wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have the crosshairs on preparing the government and law for the AfD take over for the second trial of 1933. Just like the useless Bundestag of Weimar, they would like to leave as many mines and holes in the democratic institutions so their true self can show how perfect a racist government feels.

What? Are you saying that the CDU is secretly working for the AfD? First time I heard that, what bubble are you from?

There isn’t much difference between our current Chancellor and a AfD member of Parlament.
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