Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think there's a very non-trivial chance the person who wrote this article knows much more about advertising than you think: http://www.hilarymason.com/about/
Really? Because nothing in that bio points to that. Actually the whole thing is unbelievably vague and opaque. And these kind of cutesy oneliner descriptions of one's skills make me cringe: "Simply: I make beautiful things with data". OK, she works as a "chief scientist" (that's not even a job, for us, old time folks, but anyway) at bitly (a URL shortening service, i.e as far away from a real business as you can get,…
Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing
81–90 of 103 posts
Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing
#82All clicks by accidents are unfair to the advertisers. They pay for clicks which were never intended.
Inasmuch as clicks are a valid metric for advertising performance, it is only because they prove that an ad is prominent on a page. So in that sense, there's really nothing wrong with accidental clicks.
Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing
#83A great example of how user testing is a necessary complement to click data.
Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing
#84It's unfortunate that the person who wrote this article didn't consult with someone more informed about the online advertising world. As someone who has been in the belly of the beast, I'm going to try to summarize the various ways that this article is getting it wrong. * Most Yahoo Mail ads generate revenue based on impressions, not clicks. So Yahoo isn't directly making more money by grabbing these "random" clicks.…
I think there's a very non-trivial chance the person who wrote this article knows much more about advertising than you think: http://www.hilarymason.com/about/
A lot of people with her background come to the online ad business. While brilliant, they find they have a lot to learn and a lot of assumptions that they need to throw out the window. Fortunately, the brilliant ones have no problems learning so they come up to speed quickly, but this doesn't help them to understand things prior to digging in a bit.
Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing
#85It's unfortunate that the person who wrote this article didn't consult with someone more informed about the online advertising world. As someone who has been in the belly of the beast, I'm going to try to summarize the various ways that this article is getting it wrong. * Most Yahoo Mail ads generate revenue based on impressions, not clicks. So Yahoo isn't directly making more money by grabbing these "random" clicks.…
> * It turns out what most impacts ad effectiveness online > is whether people actually see the ad. ... Highly visible > and likely to evoke accidental clicks are, unfortunately, > highly correlated. A good summary of the OP's point, I think. I'm not sure what your end point here is, as it's all over the map, but you seems to simultaneously be arguing against the author's point and for it as well.
Sometimes the truth doesn't entirely support or undermine someone's argument. It's one of the sure signs that it is the truth. ;-)
I wasn't trying to make a specific point, but rather to inform everyone, since the article didn't.
I don't mean to be coy, so I'll share my opinion:
The article presents this as a bug, which implies it is clearly wrong. It isn't. Misclicks are always going to create undesired outcomes. If you didn't have an ad there, the misclick would trigger some other action. Showing an ad landing page is probably one of the least harmful things you could reasonably do with a click in that location, so I question the notion that this leads to a "terrible experience". It might not be a great experience, but unless Yahoo Mail is expected to fix mice and operating systems, it's probably one of the better experiences they could provide in response to a misclick.
Ms. Mason seems to believe that the false clicks are driving Yahoo to think that they are getting superior ad performance. That isn't the case, as the data itself does indeed provide some clues as to the relative likelihood that an ad received a misclick.
The notion that this is evidence of "the data only takes us so far, and creativity and clear thinking are always required to find the best solutions" isn't well supported by this problem. In reality, clear thinking about the data itself has indeed lead to about as good a solution as Yahoo Mail could provide.
Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
She's a data geek. How does that make her an expert about advertising?
"... She's a data geek ..." 'She' has a name, Hilary Mason or @hmason.
If it had read, "He's a data geek..." it would have only have been offensive because they got the gender wrong.
Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, it's not clear that Hilary Mason is specifically knowledgeable about on-line advertising. She is undoubtedly very knowledgeable about computer science, big data, and a number of fields in general, but it's possible her major interaction with the specifics of on-line advertising are as an advertisee, either directly or by proxy.
To be clear, I'm not knowledgeable about online advertising. I do understand that the incentives of the advertisers and the users are often opposed, but I was highlighting this as an example of poor product design likely due to optimizing click-throughs, not product experience. :)
There are obviously a number of ad revenue driven pressures on Yahoo Mail's design. The display advertising market is very different from the search engine market. It is only tangentially about the clicks. The biggest pressures are:
"Premium Locations": these aren't necessarily the places that get high click throughs, but rather the locations which are prominently displayed and noticed by the users, which causes them to stand out in a world awash in banner ads. This competes with good UI design, which wants to put important functions in these exact same locations.
"CPM": just getting way higher impression counts. This translates to filling the screen with as many ads as possible, stealing screen real estate and really disrupting eye flow.
"CPA": Lots of ad networks/DSP's try to arbitrage between CPM and CPA. Misclicks don't generally help much with that beyond hindering optimization efforts to use clicks as signals. Mostly what this does to design is encourage "rest points" in applications where users are likely to actually take the time to go all the way through to a conversion (think of it like TV commercial breaks in sports).
"Uniques/F-Cap": You want to raise the bar on the minimum # of impressions seen by every visitor, because those early impressions are far more likely to be people who haven't seen the ad before. Advertisers pay a lot more (10x more is not unheard of) for that. So, there is pressure to spam the visitor with as many impressions as possible before they are likely to leave (which makes it hard to serve ads in a way that is proportional to the value the user derives from the experience).
"View based conversion": The underbelly of the adverting network. In theory this is a good thing. In practice, it creates an incentive to shove ad locations in to the page that the visitor never even notices (ironically the opposite of the problem the article contends).
Some people have apparently gotten the impression I was questioning your credentials, your intelligence, or somehow attacking you personally. At least in terms of intent it couldn't be farther from the truth! While I think your naïveté about online advertising undermines your article, all it might imply about you personally is your curiosity about online advertising is low as compared to other pursuits. If anything, I'd say that is a compliment. If I conveyed or you perceived anything other than that, I certainly apologize.
Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing
#88It's unfortunate that the person who wrote this article didn't consult with someone more informed about the online advertising world. As someone who has been in the belly of the beast, I'm going to try to summarize the various ways that this article is getting it wrong. * Most Yahoo Mail ads generate revenue based on impressions, not clicks. So Yahoo isn't directly making more money by grabbing these "random" clicks.…
I'm not sure if I understand your criticism. The article seemed to be commenting about the placement of ads (which she believes to be optimized by analytics), not about the economics of ads or how they are processed behind-the-scenes. I come from a data understanding background, and the cool thing I liked about this article was the following statement: "...experiences like this are great reminders that data only take…
I come from a data understanding background, and the cool
thing I liked about this article was the following statement:
"...experiences like this are great reminders that data only
takes us so far, and creativity and clear thinking are
always required to find the best solutions..."
I think in principle the statement was a good one, but unfortunately the case study doesn't fit it. The location of the ad isn't influenced by optimizing click through rates, as she presumed. It also, isn't really bad design, because there isn't a much more harmless thing to do with a misclick than to show an ad. Most importantly though: the way to mitigate the damage from misclicks actually is to use the data.Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing
#89It's unfortunate that the person who wrote this article didn't consult with someone more informed about the online advertising world. As someone who has been in the belly of the beast, I'm going to try to summarize the various ways that this article is getting it wrong. * Most Yahoo Mail ads generate revenue based on impressions, not clicks. So Yahoo isn't directly making more money by grabbing these "random" clicks.…
In the screenshot the ad blends into the rest of the UI instead of being clear that its an ad...And its prominent placement in the UI makes it very clickable. Following your logic shouldn't it remain in the same place but be more clear that its an ad so that people are not confused that its part of the product? This would have the result of being seen but not accidentally clicked.
As the article describes, people aren't misclicking because they've looked closely at the ad and mistaken it for an application function. Misclicks are predominantly people who really aren't sure what they are clicking on, don't know they are clicking, and/or didn't intend to click at all.
Either way, in practice Yahoo's optimization efforts if anything create incentive to minimize misclicks, not the other way around.
Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing
#90It's unfortunate that the person who wrote this article didn't consult with someone more informed about the online advertising world. As someone who has been in the belly of the beast, I'm going to try to summarize the various ways that this article is getting it wrong. * Most Yahoo Mail ads generate revenue based on impressions, not clicks. So Yahoo isn't directly making more money by grabbing these "random" clicks.…
I think there's a very non-trivial chance the person who wrote this article knows much more about advertising than you think: http://www.hilarymason.com/about/
Ms. Mason has confirmed her lack of domain expertise, so I guess that settles it.
In the process of attempting to highlight an important lesson about applying data analysis, she has highlighted another important and related lesson: regardless of the level of one's data analysis expertise, without domain expertise to contextualize the data, it is terribly difficult to do any kind of useful analysis.