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IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

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Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#81

This sucks. Matter is a closed ecosystem, enforced using a public key infrastructure (PKI) and device attestation certificates. Thread seems to require paying royalties if you want to ship devices. It’s disappointing that IKEA claims that this move is towards a more open ecosystem. On top of that, the switch breaks compatibility with existing hardware (except for the Touchlink functionality). If you have a bunch of Z…

> If you have a bunch of Zigbee devices, but at some point want to add some of the new ones, you need to start thinking about replacing all the perfectly working Zigbee devices or have a fragmented network. Yes, if you're using the manufacturer's half-assed smartphone app, but if you're on Home Assistant, like basically anyone who's serious about their smart home, having multiple kinds of smart devices isn't really a…

I use HA and all my IKEA lamps are zigbee. Raspberry pi obviously doesn't have native zigbee radio support, so I have a USB zigbee antenna. Now this means if I buy any more IKEA lamps, I would need a second antenna, and the new lamps would not integrate into the zigbee mesh network. It really sucks.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#82
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question doesn't really make sense this way. Thread is more or less like Wi-Fi. It's a transport technology and protocol. It's HOW your devices can talk to each other. It's how they can say "I'm here and I can see 'AirPurifier324' over there." Matter is a bit like HTTP. It's WHAT your devices say to each other. It's a way for them to say "Hi, I'm a lightbulb and you can change my color and brightness."

Ok, let me ask another way. Can it operate without an internet connection and with an open standard that lets the me, the user, to be in control using a hub (if necessary) and software I choose, including an open source option should I so choose? Or do I have to use proprietary hubs and software to control the devices? In short, are there any end user hostile features or can I use the devices like how Zigbee works?

Two devices can talk to each other if the hub helps them exchange keys https://community.home-assistant.io/t/how-to-implement-devic...

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#83

This sucks. Matter is a closed ecosystem, enforced using a public key infrastructure (PKI) and device attestation certificates. Thread seems to require paying royalties if you want to ship devices. It’s disappointing that IKEA claims that this move is towards a more open ecosystem. On top of that, the switch breaks compatibility with existing hardware (except for the Touchlink functionality). If you have a bunch of Z…

That's incorrect. Matter is an open standard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_(standard)

Matter is "open" in that it is published. It is not "open" in that you can make a matter device in your basement.

Here is the Silabs explainer on the certification process: https://docs.silabs.com/matter/latest/matter-certification/

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#84

This sucks. Matter is a closed ecosystem, enforced using a public key infrastructure (PKI) and device attestation certificates. Thread seems to require paying royalties if you want to ship devices. It’s disappointing that IKEA claims that this move is towards a more open ecosystem. On top of that, the switch breaks compatibility with existing hardware (except for the Touchlink functionality). If you have a bunch of Z…

That's incorrect. Matter is an open standard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_(standard)

[deleted]

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#85

This sucks. Matter is a closed ecosystem, enforced using a public key infrastructure (PKI) and device attestation certificates. Thread seems to require paying royalties if you want to ship devices. It’s disappointing that IKEA claims that this move is towards a more open ecosystem. On top of that, the switch breaks compatibility with existing hardware (except for the Touchlink functionality). If you have a bunch of Z…

What a shit load of disinformation you are spreading. Read up on Matter and Thread, please.

Can I make a Matter device for myself?

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#86
Warning: a bit of a rant incoming...

I've found Matter totally confusing. Given a device that supports Matter (e.g., a smart plug) and a set of devices I want to control that from (e.g., an Amazon Echo and an iPad) it is not clear to me what else I need.

Apparently I need a "controller", which is not necessarily the thing that I as a user would think of the controller--as a user I think of the controller as the device I issue command from. A Matter controller is apparently a hub for connecting the thing I'm using to issue commands to the IOT device I want to control.

And maybe I need a "Thread border router"?

As far as the controller goes, apparently at some point Apple added the ability for iPads to be Matter controllers, so you could use a Matter device with just an iPad (if the Matter device used WiFi...if it used Thread then you would need a separate Matter controller and I'd guess one of those Thread border routers).

I was able to briefly use a Matter smart plug with my iPad without having a separate hub, but it stopped working not too long after. I deleted the plug from the iPad and did a factory reset on the plug and tried setting up again, but now when the iPad searches for the device during setup it doesn't even see it.

Apple still has instructions on their site for setting up devices for direct use from iPad, but several sites on the net report that they actually dropped that support from iPad.

So lets say I go get an actual Matter hub. Do I need a separate hubs for using my Matter devices from my Apple devices and using my Matter devices from my Amazon devices? How about if I need a Thread border router--will I need one for Apple and one for Amazon? What if I add Home Assistant later--am I going to need a third hub?

All I'm really trying to do for now is use this one TP-Link Tapo smart plug that supports Matter from Apple Shortcuts without having to use the Tapo app. The Tapo app does integrate with Shortcuts but you have to be logged in to your TP-Link account on the app for it to work. Every so often you have to re-login, breaking your shortcuts until you do.

What I'm currently considering is installing Home Assistant somewhere, probably in a VM on my Mac for now but latter on a dedicated RPi if the experiments in a VM show that it will work, and setting it up to be my Matter controller for the smart plug. Shortcuts (or Siri) won't be able to directly use Matter to control the plug with that setup, but there is a Home Assistant app for iOS/iPadOS that can do so and that supports Shortcuts.

It will basically be like I'm doing now with the Tapo app but instead with the Home Assistant app and no need to be logged in to TP-Link (or to even have internet access).

PS: I wouldn't need any of this if Apple would just get around to implementing for iPadOS the same 80% charge limit option that they have had on iOS for ages. I'm using the smart plug and Shortcuts as a kludge while waiting for that. I charge through the smart plug and have a Shortcut automation to turn off the smart plug when the iPad's battery level rises above 80%.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#88

"A software development kit (SDK) is provided royalty-free,[13][14] though the ability to commission a finished product into a Matter network in the field mandates certification and membership fees,[15][16] entailing both one-time, recurring, and per-product costs.[17] This is enforced using a public key infrastructure (PKI) and so-called device attestation certificates.[15]" So it's a closed ecosystem that makes mon…

It's "closed" in the same way that all open wireless standards (Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc.) are closed. You can read the spec, use the open source SDK, and build devices without paying a cent.

If you want to participate as more than a hobbyist, you'll need to join the CSA (a non-profit mutual-benefit corporation). This will cost a bit less than half of what it cost manufacturers to join the equivalent organization for Z-Wave — a closed, single-vendor, non-IP-based solution that was state-of-the-art 25 years ago.

Money paid by commercial vendors funds stuff like test labs, interop events, and compliance support systems.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#89
post #55
post #8

I don't understand the problem that thread solves that zigbee doesn't! The article says that thread doesn't require a hub but it require a border gateway that is almost indistinguishable from a hub. And as far as my home assistant setup is concerned, it doesn't require a hub, only a zigbee radio. The only thing that seems to advantage thread is manufacturers support, but I don't see what's stopped them to regroup aro…

As I understand it, Thread can transparently extend its mesh over regular IPv6 (Ethernet, Wi-Fi, etc), whereas extending a Zigbee (or Z-Wave) mesh beyond useful mesh range is a mess. I have a Z-Wave network that uses two controllers, and it sucks . It’s utterly obnoxious to maintain, the whole concept of multiple controllers is barely supported by zwave-js-ui, it is far to dumb to recover quickly on its own if it tra…

Yes this is indeed a problem. You can get around this by piping the Z-Wave or Zigbee information into a MQTT server and basically run them as separate networks, with Home Assistant and MQTT tying it all together. But you will need some type of Zigbee to Ethernet adapter (Sonoff makes one, Raspberry Pi, etc.) or Z-wave to ethernet adapter (again Raspberry Pi). It's definitely clunky. But doable.

I am running multiple Zigbee networks near each other (in a house and in a detached garage) with Home Assistant, MQTT server and a Sonoff Zigbee bridge, with Tasmota.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#90

This sucks. Matter is a closed ecosystem, enforced using a public key infrastructure (PKI) and device attestation certificates. Thread seems to require paying royalties if you want to ship devices. It’s disappointing that IKEA claims that this move is towards a more open ecosystem. On top of that, the switch breaks compatibility with existing hardware (except for the Touchlink functionality). If you have a bunch of Z…

That's incorrect. Matter is an open standard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_(standard)

>the ability to commission a finished product into a Matter network in the field mandates certification and membership fees,[15][16] entailing both one-time, recurring, and per-product costs.[17] This is enforced using a public key infrastructure (PKI) and so-called device attestation certificates.[15]

Thank you for the clarification?

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