Matrix v1.15

I know of nobody who even knows of Matrix, if I haven't told them beforehand. Discord is so much better than all alternatives, that I just don't see why anyone would leave it.

I like the idea of matrix and element, but the execution is just so lackluster. Even Signal added a lot of quality of life improvements, and WhatsApp is consistently getting better. I don't like the idea of using a messenger owned by Meta, but honestly, messengers absolutely need an excellent UX and UI, QOL features, etc. and Element is just far behind in this regard.

$50 says that this is yet another instance of the failure-mode explained in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44392479.

My minimum requirements for personal online communication outside of public web-accessible forums like this one, are open protocol, open source implementations, optional E2EE, independent hosting, client choice, and access to channels on other independently hosted servers. These are non negotiable for building my social graph of communication with family, friends, colleagues, etc.

Communication is a sacred part of the human experience and I will not allow centralized entities to control my primary means of connection to my friends and family.

My options for digital comms are then are limited to email, IRC, XMPP, or Matrix.

Matrix has leaps and bounds the best UX and functionality by this criteria and is what I use for the overwhelming majority of my communications.

Anyone that is exclusively willing to communicate over corpotech disrespects my values for freedom and privacy, and is by extension opting out of being friends with me unless we see each other in person regularly.

9/10 times the people that respect me and want to be friends with me also respect my ethical conviction and create matrix accounts to talk to me if they do not already have one.

Taking back control of the internet will require conviction and I try to lead by example in my social circles. I personally could not give less of a shit if Matrix has feature parity with xyz corpotech as they are not solving the same problem. I also use IRC heavily to talk to many of the best engineers in the world and that is a low UX bar to beat.

That said, as corpotech walled gardens keep screwing their users, more and more hold-outs will come over and new features and improvements will reduce that friction over time.

For now though very few individuals understand the vital importance of digital sovereignty for a citizen controlled society, but governments absolutely get it and do not want people like Zuck controlling their comms, so it is not surprising governments are first in line willing to pay for help switching to Matrix. The people will follow in time.

> I finally gave up on it realising it is (and now it seems was never even planned to be) a communication tool for the "masses" or end users - you know - you, I and our friends and family... kind of.

Matrix has always intended to provide communication for the masses. You can see this from day 1 here: https://matrix.org/blog/2014/09/03/hello-world. You can see it in the Matrix Foundation's manifesto & mission here: https://matrix.org/foundation/about. You can see this in my "Road to mainstream Matrix" FOSDEM mainstage talk this year: https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-6274-the-....

However, we have to fund our work on this, and the Matrix team at Element do so right now by building digitally-sovereign comms apps for governments. The reason is that generating funding out of mainstream consumer messaging apps is very hard when you are competing against 'free' (WhatsApp, iMessage, Signal) and when you aren't in the business of monetising data/metadata or selling ads or AI. Signal has problems with funding even at the scale they're operating, for instance. So, instead, the strategy has been to focus on getting $ from governments which in turn can then keep the lights on for everyone else. And I personally am continuing to jump through every hoop I can to try to get Matrix into mainstream use.

Perhaps an analogy is Linux On The Desktop. I'm sure when Linus created Linux he was hoping to create a generic kernel which could be used all over the place for everyone. As it happens, it first got traction serverside, and so lots of effort and focus went into refining that; meanwhile clientside Linux lagged a bit, especially as reconciling great UX with open source is... challenging. As a result, loads of people on /. or whatever complained bitterly about clientside Linux not being mainstream. As time went, on though, organisations subsequently focused on building great Linux-based clientside products like Android, Ubuntu, etc, and you could argue that Linux did eventually go mainstream on mobile, and may yet go mainstream on desktop. But it took ~20+ years to do so, due to the twisty path it took to get to critical mass.

> yes I tried the kicks-ass-new-swift-client and it seems to be just another dull almost useless iOS messaging app which was done as a proof of concept of an open source project with very high values and goals and completely missing the point of usability and what people need and where smartphone messaging is today.

You'll have to explain to me how EX misses "what people need and where smartphone messaging is today", as the feedback here feels a little unsubstantiated...

> Also by the way - how many has it been? Matrix -> Riot -> Element.. is it changing again now?

Matrix is still Matrix, and always has been. Riot got renamed to Element in 2020 and there are no plans whatsoever to change that. We should print t-shirts for folks who bring up the rebrand to hit us with 5 years later. Meanwhile, here's a shout out to Riot Games' lawyers for forcing us to rebrand in the first place...

> Maybe 100% of times you are missing the point why people think that way by just assuming this?

Maybe, but this is the first time i've heard someone complain about Element X (other than being impatient for threads/spaces); i have a high sample size of people confirming that it's a big improvement.

> Well, I do hope you realise that "Govt as the entity" per se that would not use these apps - but "the people" (which actually kinda comes back to you, I, and our friends) in those governments will use those apps and services.

Not entirely sure how to parse this, but if your point is that our competition for Govt end-users is Signal & WhatsApp, then totally agreed. Which is why we've focused on matching/outcompeting them with Element X.

> Anyway, good luck.

thanks! :D