Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

picower.mit.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 140 posts

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#81

Post by hirvi74 »

static_void wrote: post #40
gigaflop wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generic Adderall Gang here, and in hindsight, I'm surprised at how little of it I need to realize a much better headspace. Makes me wonder if all of that caffeine in my undiagnosed youth was saying something...

I'd be interested in your thoughts more here. The problem with amphetamine is you pay for every benefit: focus now, lethargy later; energy now, anhedonia later. But taking a small, consistent dose. Does that work? Do you feel you net benefits in life from taking the drug, discounting for withdrawal and/or tolerance?

Been on the various stimulants for a decade now:

> But taking a small, consistent dose. Does that work?

Typically, no; however, it's context dependent.

> Do you feel you net benefits in life from taking the drug

There are diminishing returns overtime, but there is still some benefit to be had.

> withdrawal and/or tolerance?

Both are real and awful to deal with.

Is it all worth it? I tend to flip-flop back and forth a lot on this.

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#82

Post by loa_in_ »

shemtay wrote: post #75
Aurornis wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neurotransmitters are just "global variables" to the GPU. No, neurotransmitters are very local. Dopamine exists all throughout your body, including your bloodstream. The dopamine in one location is uncoupled from the dopamine in another location. The dopamine in your bloodstream can't get into your brain. Dopamine within the brain doesn't spill over into entirely different regions of the brain.

is it not true though that activity/threshholds of dopamine synapses can be globally or semi-globally up and down regulated?

Not true. Down/up regulation happens in areas where (sometimes called) psychoactive substances and/or regulatory nervous signals reach. Substances that cross blood brain barrier still might not reach areas due to lowered blood flow or tissue damage.

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#83

Post by zifpanachr23 »

pessimizer wrote: post #45
nashashmi wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best place to help you cope with an addiction are with the people who are confessed addicts. But just because they are the best doesn’t mean their help actually helps.

The best place to help you cope with continuing an addiction, but not the best place to get rid of an addiction. If you want to get rid of an addiction, stay away from addicts and everything they produce. Stay away from their artistic creations, stay away from their complicated explanations of the world, and stay away from their gossip. Also, please don't study to become any kind of "drug counselor," get regular pers…

This is good advice and it's worked for other things I've been addicted to.

I guess you can think of this as my retirement from Hacker News. Thank you kind stranger.

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#84

Post by aaronbaugher »

munificent wrote: post #70
abhisek wrote: post #5

I have a simple question. How do I control dopamine in "my" brain so that I can focus on "here and now" instead of HN and GitHub.

Get away from screens. It's hard to focus on the here and now when the here and now is the soul-deadening sensory-less experience of sitting motionless staring at a flat rectangle of pixels. Go out in the woods. Get your hands dirty. Meet friends at a bar and laugh until your stomach hurts. It's so much easier to be present in the moment when the moment is actually high fidelity and nourishing.

I recently started doing a 5-4-3-2-1 grounding exercise, where you look around you and name 5 things you can see, touch and name 4 things you can touch, name 3 things you can hear, 2 you can smell, and 1 you can taste.

I was surprised how different it felt to consciously see and touch things. It's not like I'm walking around my house with my eyes closed normally, but most of the time things aren't really registering. Stopping to intentionally focus for a second on an actual object or a sound I'm currently hearing seems to sort of wake me up, bring me out of a trance a little. Not as well as digging in the garden, but not bad for a few seconds in the middle of the work day.

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#85

Post by hirvi74 »

Aurornis wrote: post #47
static_void wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested in your thoughts more here. The problem with amphetamine is you pay for every benefit: focus now, lethargy later; energy now, anhedonia later. But taking a small, consistent dose. Does that work? Do you feel you net benefits in life from taking the drug, discounting for withdrawal and/or tolerance?

> The problem with amphetamine is you pay for every benefit: focus now, lethargy later; energy now, anhedonia later. > But taking a small, consistent dose. Does that work? Do you feel you net benefits in life from taking the drug, discounting for withdrawal and/or tolerance? There's a reason these medications are supposed to be taken regularly at the same dose in clinical practice. Patients should not be going throug…

The one issue I have never been able to overcome is that the medications are completely ineffective unless they induce hyperfocus. Now, it doesn't take me a lot to get into this state. I could easily enter such a state prior to medication, though I often needed (and still need) some kind of fuel -- intense desire or passion, impending deadline, etc..

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#86

Post by static_void »

Aurornis wrote: post #47
static_void wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested in your thoughts more here. The problem with amphetamine is you pay for every benefit: focus now, lethargy later; energy now, anhedonia later. But taking a small, consistent dose. Does that work? Do you feel you net benefits in life from taking the drug, discounting for withdrawal and/or tolerance?

> The problem with amphetamine is you pay for every benefit: focus now, lethargy later; energy now, anhedonia later. > But taking a small, consistent dose. Does that work? Do you feel you net benefits in life from taking the drug, discounting for withdrawal and/or tolerance? There's a reason these medications are supposed to be taken regularly at the same dose in clinical practice. Patients should not be going throug…

What do you think about this?

With XR, I feel less hyperfocus and more sleepytime disruptions. It's less strong so I take more, but it lasts longer so I get its effects when I don't need it.

I feel like IR is actually less amenable to abuse.

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#87

Post by bravetraveler »

keybored wrote: post #74
Aurornis wrote: post #43

When you see headlines (or hear podcasters) talk about dopamine and other neurotransmitters, remember that neurotransmitters are merely signaling molecules. The correct way to interpret this study is that dopamine is part of the signaling chain involved in fear extinction. The specific details of where, how, and when that dopamine moves through the brain are important. The wrong way to interpret these studies is to t…

Turned out that people learning about just lead to them making a fetish out of it, like it’s discrete switch in their brain that gets bumped when they eat a donut. I wonder what even the point is.

    I wonder what even the point is.
To either sell junk or believe '$problems' are one purchase/dance/act away from resolution, matter of perspective. Folks want things, others want to take advantage.

Not to be completely dismissive, placebo/mysticism/whatever can work

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#88

Post by XorNot »

exe34 wrote: post #72
isomorphic wrote: post #35

This line in the article is horrifying : > The researchers were surprised that when they activated VTA dopaminergic inputs into the aBLA they could reinstate fear even without any new foot shocks, impairing fear extinction. That... seems like the first step in being able to literally induce fear without having to bother with pesky things like finding the subject's triggers. Although I suppose if one has direct access…

I feel like this would deprive the FSB/ICE/law-enforcement officials of their entire motivation for taking pride in their jobs. Automate the paperwork, yes, but let the psychopaths have their fun!

Torture is ineffective for information recovery.

Those organizations do it because they want to, not because it works.

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#89

Post by aaroninsf »

Aurornis wrote: post #43

When you see headlines (or hear podcasters) talk about dopamine and other neurotransmitters, remember that neurotransmitters are merely signaling molecules. The correct way to interpret this study is that dopamine is part of the signaling chain involved in fear extinction. The specific details of where, how, and when that dopamine moves through the brain are important. The wrong way to interpret these studies is to t…

You're 100% right,

and,

I can say that my own experience is that correlating my own exposure to stimuli I have found fear-inducing, while on dopamine-modulating drugs,

has proven highly efficacious in overcoming those fears.

No A/B, results may vary, etc.,

but personally I have had life-changing results.

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#90

Post by aaroninsf »

aaroninsf wrote: post #89
Aurornis wrote: post #43

When you see headlines (or hear podcasters) talk about dopamine and other neurotransmitters, remember that neurotransmitters are merely signaling molecules. The correct way to interpret this study is that dopamine is part of the signaling chain involved in fear extinction. The specific details of where, how, and when that dopamine moves through the brain are important. The wrong way to interpret these studies is to t…

You're 100% right, and, I can say that my own experience is that correlating my own exposure to stimuli I have found fear-inducing, while on dopamine-modulating drugs, has proven highly efficacious in overcoming those fears. No A/B, results may vary, etc., but personally I have had life-changing results.

If one were to assume—which I recognize we certainly can't—that there was in fact some sort of causality here,

one interpretation would be that some specific drugs operate on relevant aspects of (or modulate the behavior of) the stipulated systems in a manner consistent with the desired outcome,

which allows for a neat summary in casual language, regardless of the complicated specific internal mechanisms.

Post reply on HN