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East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

maxhertzberg.co.uk

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Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#81

Post by chgs »

Helmut10001 wrote: post #12
begueradj wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some European countries, if you apply to rent an apartment, the landlord can see you failed to pay 1 month rent several years ago. That's just a tiny example. Is this control and surveillance or ... democracy and freedom ?

I have a tenant who has been living in my garden house for two years without paying rent. It is almost impossible to solve this situation. I am not even allowed to turn off the water or electricity. There are always two sides to every coin.

What country?

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#82

Post by paganel »

sofixa wrote: post #28
paganel wrote: post #3

> than political grassroots activists have today in places such as Western Europe and North America That (2021) from the title is on the mark, as I think that by now, 2025, it has been made quite obvious that political protests in the West can only get up to a certain point, after which you risk prison, job loss or a combination of the two (even bough January 6 and the associated political repression took place in ea…

> even bough January 6 and the associated political repression took place in early 2021 Repression for a coup attempt is the expected and wanted outcome. Also, please stop mixing the US, maybe Canada and UK with "the West". Political protests in France remain quite powerful, even if they haven't managed to force the government to go back on some long promised and long needed reforms (pensions).

> Political protests in France remain quite powerful,

Political repression against the gilets jaunes was quite powerful, too, thanks for reminding me. It was surreal to be stopped in the middle of no-where, Pays de la Loire, by a bunch of gendarmes who were holding submachine guns, and all that because it was still gilets jaunes season (early autumn of 2019, if I remember right).

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#83

Post by chgs »

dmos62 wrote: post #78
sien wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes you wonder if 'disinformation' actually works if the mass propaganda of totalitarian regimes fails so dramatically. There is an interesting book called 'Not Born Yesterday' that points out that people are pretty skeptical . https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45358676-not-born-yester...

Russian disinformation campaigns the past 20 years have been outrageously effective.

Only because of the invention of western platforms tuned by the brightest minds in the world to enable the maximum amount of brainwashing

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#84

Post by walterbell »

sixhobbits wrote: post #54

How does one reconcile the idea that the Stasi disappeared political opponents regularly but also engaged in weird stuff like moving people's socks around. > The final stages entailed psychological and physical harassment: moving things around at home (one morning the alarm clock goes off at 5am instead of 7am, and the socks are in the wrong drawer, there’s no coffee left …); damage to bikes and vehicles (eg slashing…

You can't disappear everyone. Deniable punishment of possible precrime would create superstitions for the general population to be on their best behavior. Sabotage that slows down an adversary would enable more time for surveillance.

See "predictive policing", https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2020/investigations/p...

> One former deputy described the directive like this: “Make their lives miserable until they move or sue.” In just five years, Nocco’s signature program has ensnared almost 1,000 people.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#85

Post by raverbashing »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #57
lifestyleguru wrote: post #14

So much effort and resources only to produce Trabants and Wartburgs. You will know them by the cars they produce.

/me looks at most British and American cars...

And even the crappiest British car was better than the lawnmower that seated 4 that was the Trabant (ok maybe not the reliant robin, but still)

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#86

Post by ReptileMan »

sien wrote: post #4

It's remarkable how quickly Communism collapsed in Eastern Europe the moment Soviet support went. Despite decades of intense propaganda, killings of people in uprisings and the methods of Stasi as described in the article. Even with all that effort most people didn't believe in the regime. So it's hard to say whether the Stasi's tactics worked. Only people in the regimes like Ceausescu and Honecker actually thought p…

The communism collapsed because it was no longer possible to keep the knowledge of the 80s American supermarket hidden from them. That's it. If the communist regime provided what CCP does now - there would be absolutely no collapse.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#87

Post by EnPissant »

bertylicious wrote: post #56
okeuro49 wrote: post #25

In the UK there is "social media intelligence", where AI systems scan the firehose of messages as they appear. [1] So people have been arrested for posting something online, even if nobody appears to have seen it, and they delete it shortly after. The policing is selective, depending on political view. For example, there were recently people with placards in London calling for the death of JK Rowling, which is de fac…

You forgot to add a source for your claim that protestors called for the death of Rowling.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/22/trans-activists-...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14638683/Police-inv...

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#88

Post by zwaps »

sixhobbits wrote: post #54

How does one reconcile the idea that the Stasi disappeared political opponents regularly but also engaged in weird stuff like moving people's socks around. > The final stages entailed psychological and physical harassment: moving things around at home (one morning the alarm clock goes off at 5am instead of 7am, and the socks are in the wrong drawer, there’s no coffee left …); damage to bikes and vehicles (eg slashing…

The question you ask is really important, because it shows how devious the Stasi regime was and why it lasted half a century. Why would they do this? Why would they go through these lengths to destroy a person so entirely they wouldn't even need to disappear them?

The Stasi knew that power is never that absolute. The GDR was built upon the idea that is was good, not evil (like the West). You can't be good and regularly disappear public figures, especially those from intellectual cycles. Additionally, people were aware of the oppression as is. If the GDR would have simply disappeared people, there would have been revolts. Germans were too connected to the other reality.

Here is a popular song from that time

I think what I want,

and what makes me happy,

but all in silence,

and as it befits.

My wish and desire

no one can forbid,

it remains so:

thoughts are free.

...

And if they lock me up

in a dark dungeon,

all that is purely

futile work;

for my thoughts

tear through the barriers

and walls in two:

thoughts are free.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#89

Post by ttoinou »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #55
lifestyleguru wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During COVID face masks were enough. Fine speculators earner low hundreds trading them, politicians made frauds worth millions, anyone could pick on any stranger not wearing or wearing them incorrectly, law enforcement could impose the most ridiculous fines. It's so trivial to make people yap at each other.

Not wearing one implied a lack of care for others in your society. Wearing them imposed minimal burden, so why are you surprised when you signal that you don't care about others in your society, that they responded in kind?

You’re basically admitting you are one sided on this topic and couldn’t understand why this was the perfect tool to divide and conquer people

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#90

Post by zorked »

chgs wrote: post #83
dmos62 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian disinformation campaigns the past 20 years have been outrageously effective.

Only because of the invention of western platforms tuned by the brightest minds in the world to enable the maximum amount of brainwashing

Still proof that propaganda works, and is growing over time.
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