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How refrigeration changed our food

nytimes.com

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Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#81

Post by mschuster91 »

stevenwoo wrote: post #74
mschuster91 wrote: post #49

> Commercial produce today is both less flavorful and markedly less nutritious than what our great-grandparents ate. Outside a home garden or a farmer’s market, the modern consumer can’t taste truly fresh produce. In our pursuit of endless abundance, Twilley explains, we have lost “diversity and deliciousness.” Yup. Turns out, the varieties that do best in climate controlled greenhouses aren't the ones that have much…

Farmers markets (at least locally for me in California USA) are a bit of a crap shoot. They've become popular enough that one has to be discerning because some are infiltrated by people simply reselling goods from warehouse stores, though the boutique varieties of produce are pretty much guaranteed to be authentic and if one is lucky some regular produce is much cheaper than even discount grocers.

Both in Germany and Croatia, that's enforced by the market managers, aka the local government.

Obviously there's exceptions for stuff that's out of season or doesn't even grow in the country - but they do a darn well job at ensuring everyone plays by the rules.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#82

Post by stevenwoo »

mschuster91 wrote: post #81
stevenwoo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Farmers markets (at least locally for me in California USA) are a bit of a crap shoot. They've become popular enough that one has to be discerning because some are infiltrated by people simply reselling goods from warehouse stores, though the boutique varieties of produce are pretty much guaranteed to be authentic and if one is lucky some regular produce is much cheaper than even discount grocers.

Both in Germany and Croatia, that's enforced by the market managers, aka the local government. Obviously there's exceptions for stuff that's out of season or doesn't even grow in the country - but they do a darn well job at ensuring everyone plays by the rules.

I’m quite envious of that situation, here it’s an anything goes for the provenance of goods and the onus is on the consumer to be ever vigilant in almost all markets and guaranteed to get worse for a generation at least (federal judges being lifetime appointments).

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#83

Post by salomonk_mur »

snarf21 wrote: post #65
omnee wrote: post #50

I can't emphasize this strongly enough. Recently, I had the pleasure of eating at a fine dining restaurant that grows a number of vegetables and herbs, and they presented an amuse bouche with a number of raw vegetables and herbs for us to taste. Their flavours were so elevated compared to the usual counterparts that I get from supermarkets, that I questioned whether any artificial addititives were used - obviously no…

Very true but how many people would pay the extra cost for vegetables outside the agricultural industrial complex? Most people want cheap and their fruits and vegetables year round, even if they are out of season. There is a major taste difference just between canned vegetables vs frozen. My biggest annoyance is ordering a BLT in August and getting a green artificially ripened tomato even though ripe and flavorful on…

You think that it's cheaper for some reason to get it from the "complex", while it is very obviously not so.

The logistics between growers to distributors to store and customers add a ton of cost to your food. In the order of 200%.

The reliance on external food sources for many ingredients exacerbates this even more.

Many business models in other countries are based on lowering logistics, doing basically grower-to-customer directly and evading all the middlemen. No refrigeration, better quality, cheaper food.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#84

Post by globular-toast »

arp242 wrote: post #66
globular-toast wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fridge door one came up some time ago on HN with actual data to back it up from "smart" fridges. Some people with kids said it was opened well over 100 times a day which shocked me. If TV/film/YouTube is anything to go by the habit of leaving the door open for extended periods is common too. That one really grinds my gears. I just can't understand a brain that doesn't tell you to minimise the amount of time the d…

A few years ago I had a housemate who would fill up the kettle all the way to the brim, would wait for it to boil and then she'd make a single cup of tea and let the rest go cold. Every single time. This unreasonably angered me.

Kettle fillers are bizarre but I think there's slightly more to it. Some people think they are being rude if they only prepare enough food for themselves. I think kettle fillers may believe they are doing a service for others when they fill. But that's really stretching the benefit of the doubt here. They may just be thick.

I can actually top this, though. In my student days I had a guy from a hot country move in. Apparently the water from the tap was too cold so he would warm it in the kettle. The trouble is the kettle is too hot... So I watched in utter disbelief as he boiled the kettle, poured boiling water into a pint glass, then carried said glass to the fridge to cool it back down to drinking temperature!

Later I came back and he'd forgotten about the water so it was now colder than tap water in the fridge.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#85

Post by mc32 »

stevenwoo wrote: post #74
mschuster91 wrote: post #49

> Commercial produce today is both less flavorful and markedly less nutritious than what our great-grandparents ate. Outside a home garden or a farmer’s market, the modern consumer can’t taste truly fresh produce. In our pursuit of endless abundance, Twilley explains, we have lost “diversity and deliciousness.” Yup. Turns out, the varieties that do best in climate controlled greenhouses aren't the ones that have much…

Farmers markets (at least locally for me in California USA) are a bit of a crap shoot. They've become popular enough that one has to be discerning because some are infiltrated by people simply reselling goods from warehouse stores, though the boutique varieties of produce are pretty much guaranteed to be authentic and if one is lucky some regular produce is much cheaper than even discount grocers.

Decent vendors usually list their website or farm name on their tent/stall. They could make things up of course, but people who frequent the market would get wise to the shenanigans. If it’s some guy with a bunch of wax boxes worth of produce then yeah, they may just be reselling -just like the rando selling strawberries on a random corner without a license.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#86

Post by nottorp »

makeitdouble wrote: post #11
nottorp wrote: post #4

Hmm isn't frozen food - even veggies - very close in content to fresh food? The real problem being not how the veggies are stored on their way to us, but how they're grown industrially?

If it's sent shipped cross-continent(s) it might be. The point of fresh to me is to have it come from closer sources, even if it's in a worse shape, and be consumed basically in a day or two. For anyone caring enough, getting access to local(ish) fresh food can be a pretty good indicator of a nice place to live, and it's usually worth the tradeoffs.

I have access to fresh veggies by taking the elevator down and out of my apartment building. There's a fresh groceries store right in front if i want a salad.

But I have no problem with grabbing a bag of frozen veggie mix to make borsch.

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