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NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

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Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#81

Post by jedberg »

devb wrote: post #79
jedberg wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about all the lives your work might save ? What if you figure out how to crack the encryption of a network of evil doers so that the next bombing of civilians is prevented?

Have the foreign operations of the US government in the last ten years saved or ended a larger number of lives?

How could we possibly know, given that most of the operations are I assume clandestine and we'll never hear about them, positive or negative?

For some anecdotal evidence, I worked with a guy who was a colonel in the Army reserve. He was called up a few years ago to head up a base in Africa. His mission? To bring food and water to the citizens there. The army was doing this because they had to fight off the warlords who would try and steal the aid that was being provided.

So sure, you hear about a whole bunch of things the government is doing that is evil, and I'll be the first to stand with you and agree, but there is a lot of good being done too.

Imagine if the NSA had intercepted the plans for 9/11 and been allowed to stop it. 3000+ lives would have been saved, and you would have never ever heard about it.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#82

Post by dmishe »

illumin8 wrote: post #40

I was offered a nice contracting job at a USAF base. All I had to do was run a single large Oracle server (Sun Enterprise 10000). I asked "what does the system do?" The recruiter told me the database handled the parts ordering system for foreign countries that need to order replacement parts for F-15 fighters that the US ships to them. I turned down the position for ethical reasons. Somehow, I'm not comfortable knowi…

So, working on any open-source component that military will use accounts to killing?

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#83

Post by drivingmenuts »

mindslight wrote: post #66
cbryan wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been in a similar situation, and I think it's about risk. It's relatively easy to decline a job, you're not going to jail for turning down a gig. Not paying taxes will get you some serious jail time though. So morally, yeah, both actions are enabling the same results, but one is easier to commit to.

Also, not paying taxes has less prospect of leading by example. The sheer majority will attack you for not paying your "fair" share, as they internalize their rulers' plans as their own to feel a sense of purpose.

There's some justification for that, though. If you don't pay your portion, then that's less funding for the things that are common good, as well as common bad.

I don't particularly think it's all that great that childless homeowners pay school taxes on their property, but I accept the reasoning for it.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#84

Post by raverbashing »

ArbitraryLimits wrote: post #33
timsally wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of this really interesting things I've discovered over the last year is that the government is really heterogeneous; extraordinary competence exists in many places. When you think about it, it makes perfect sense. There are talented hackers working on the kernel instead of Wall Street for ideological reasons. It not that great of a leap to imagine that there are also talented hackers (and people who are talented…

Or the government is just the last place left where you can count on a stable paycheck, and lots of engineers like to optimize for that instead of for the possibility of striking it rich. It used to be, anyway.

It's certainly a choice

Less variance or more variance. But I think it really doesn't pay off (unless it's for high level jobs, think NASA, DOE, etc)

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#85

Post by briandear »

sp332 wrote: post #47
briandear wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Because China and France would never do that. One of the primary purposes of French Intelligence is industrial espionage. Before you make ignorant statements about the NSA how about getting some facts? Also, if those 'human beings' are trying to blow up Americans, then I don't care about their rights. I have a right for my kid to not get killed while traveling on the subway. I have a right to not have bombs bl…

Where's your outrage over Syrian and Iranian Intelligence and their tactics? Your entire rant is irrelevant. Independently of how much you dislike foreign agencies, working for the NSA might also pose ethical problems.

Murder is unethical, but when you're at war..

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#86

Post by briandear »

jedberg wrote: post #81
devb wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have the foreign operations of the US government in the last ten years saved or ended a larger number of lives?

How could we possibly know, given that most of the operations are I assume clandestine and we'll never hear about them, positive or negative? For some anecdotal evidence, I worked with a guy who was a colonel in the Army reserve. He was called up a few years ago to head up a base in Africa. His mission? To bring food and water to the citizens there. The army was doing this because they had to fight off the warlords w…

And that has happened on numerous occasions. The number of Hezbollah fronts that have been stopped in just Houston alone saved a large number of lives by disrupting financing mechanisms that facilitate illicit materiél aquisitions. But the tin foil hat crowd would prefer to fixate on missteps. There was plenty of bad stuff the US (and Brits) did in WWII, but cracking Enigma codes saved potentially millions of lives. I don't know who would argue that working on the Enigma project was harming the worl, except maybe Germans at the time. The intel world is very ambiguous. It a person can't deal with ambiguity, then they'd be better off staying out of the intel community.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#87

Post by briandear »

white_devil wrote: post #37

"Help us monitor the communications of private citizens all over the world, even if they use encryption!" ( Need I remind you of this? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/ ) Hey it's challenging work! Just like devising new algorithms for helping Wall Street rape the world's economies! It's exactly what a true hacker wants and needs. Tinker with your favourite programming languages and tools! Go…

That's just nonsense. Where's your outrage over the stuff the Syrians, Iranians and North Koreans. You can bury your head in the sands of outrage, but meanwhile, people are working hard to maintain your freedom to enjoy your conspiracy theories. Wall Street isn't raping world economies. That's just anti-capitalist nonsense. "The most important single central fact about a free market is that no exchange takes place unless both parties benefit."

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#88

Post by briandear »

pdubs wrote: post #54
briandear wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The polygraph isn't about lie detection. If you can't beat an NSA poly, they wouldn't want you. The poly isn't about finding 'truth' inasmuch as it's about your abilities to pass it. I can't speak to the NSA specifically, but in other agencies, the poly is a screening tool. Even if you're lying but can beat the poly, then you have proven that you can maintain while under extreme pressure. Intel agency polys are serio…

I suppose someone with a bullshit threshold high enough to take a polygraph would do better in a government agency than someone who wouldn't.

It's more about your ability to withstand interrogation if you're captured.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#89

Post by white_devil »

briandear wrote: post #87
white_devil wrote: post #37

"Help us monitor the communications of private citizens all over the world, even if they use encryption!" ( Need I remind you of this? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/ ) Hey it's challenging work! Just like devising new algorithms for helping Wall Street rape the world's economies! It's exactly what a true hacker wants and needs. Tinker with your favourite programming languages and tools! Go…

That's just nonsense. Where's your outrage over the stuff the Syrians, Iranians and North Koreans. You can bury your head in the sands of outrage, but meanwhile, people are working hard to maintain your freedom to enjoy your conspiracy theories. Wall Street isn't raping world economies. That's just anti-capitalist nonsense. "The most important single central fact about a free market is that no exchange takes place un…

I take it you work in finance then.
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