Live data from Hacker News

Bitcoinica MtGox account compromised

bitcointalk.org

81–90 of 108 posts

Re: Bitcoinica MtGox account compromised

#81
post #25

This is starting to prove -- the hard way -- why regulations, certifications, and all that other stuff that feels like meaningless overhead the majority of the time has become a grudgingly accepted part of our lives. It comes back to the most difficult problem: you inevitably need to trust someone, so how do you minimize your risk in that trust? I always thought the Bitcoin trust issues would revolve around the inabi…

Banking, as regards regulation, is a special case.

If a taxi company or a pizza company goes belly up, people shake their heads sadly and move to a competitor. The free market is the best arbitrator.

If a chain of banks goes belly up and people's life savings are gone, you get rioting in the streets. That's the kind of situation that let Hitler into power. For the sake of preserving civilization, governments act as the de facto underwriters of bank deposits. This free insurance is an effective subsidy, and people don't give you free money without demanding control to go with it, so it's inevitable that governments end up having a say in how the banking business is carried out.

People put their fucking life savings into Bitcoinica. If that starts happening on a large scale - if Bitcoin becomes a major currency, and people have the opportunity to put their life savings into bitcoin banks - then bitcoin banks will start being regulated, just as fiat currency banks are. As a libertarian, I'm not entirely happy about this, but we have to deal with the world as it is, not as it should be.

Re: Bitcoinica MtGox account compromised

#82
post #79
post #6

I can't believe people entrust virtual money to sites like these which in general - but consistently - seem to be run by amateurs.

AFAIK Bitcoinica was the only site offering BTC derivatives, so presumably some people figured the potential profit was worth the risk. More generally, all Bitcoin exchanges seem to be run by amateurs, so people have to deal with them to cash out.

I wonder why. There seems to be a huge gap in the market for a professionally run enterprise here. Or at least, anything more focused beyond students half-assing it part-time.

Re: Bitcoinica MtGox account compromised

#84
post #25

This is starting to prove -- the hard way -- why regulations, certifications, and all that other stuff that feels like meaningless overhead the majority of the time has become a grudgingly accepted part of our lives. It comes back to the most difficult problem: you inevitably need to trust someone, so how do you minimize your risk in that trust? I always thought the Bitcoin trust issues would revolve around the inabi…

"But it's unsettling to see that breaches like this don't evidently leave the impression with the Bitcoin community that a believer in the free market might hope they would, that providers in this market might not be driven to produce quality and reliability because somehow there isn't the demand for it."

It is not as if the regulated world is all sweetness and light with no problems. The LIBOR scandal involved lots of violations of law, ethics, and regulation, for instance, and as the rot is found to go deeper that only further proves regulation can't cure all ills. Compare only the benefits of any thing with only the negatives of another and you get a predetermined result.

BitCoin is only about a billionith as old as the regulated money system. Growing pains should be somewhat expected. (And I say this as someone who does not generally believe in it.)

Re: Bitcoinica MtGox account compromised

#85
post #38

> Unbeknownst to us, Tihan was using the mtgox api key as the password for a website called LastPass. Unbelievable. They decide to use a password escrow service... and use a duplicate password to secure it. This is 100% cargo cult security. Clearly whoever did this had no idea what the value of LastPass was, just that it was what all the cool security kids were doing. The choice of the high-value BtGox key was (stagg…

Since my name has appeared in connection with this calamity, I'm linking here to my response:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=58008;sa=...

Bitcoinica is far the most toxic investment of my career. I still applaude founder Zhou Tong's bravery for creating it and wish dearly that the change in management had never taken place.

Bitcoin technology holds great potential but I fear there are still many hard lessons ahead.

Re: Bitcoinica MtGox account compromised

#86
post #10

I would've thought that no one would keep using Bitconica after their first major breach but here I am, shocked by the fact that people still kept trusting them with their Bitcoins

I've lost count of how many times they have been breached. Why don't they get independent pen testers and get them to test their system? Surely paying a pen tester $5k is much better than the amount of negative publicity you get when you lose $350K

Surely paying a pen tester $5k

Can you get a pen tester for $5k? I'd have thought they could command higher rates

Re: Bitcoinica MtGox account compromised

#87

Is it really that hard to imagine that this is an inside job? Come on... 4 or 5 big money-losing breaches? To the tune of what? A million dollars? And nobody is talking about cooperation between insiders and this "hacker" ?

OTOH when we keep hearing about the hacks, it's always something stupid. They are making amateur mistakes, so it's no suprise that they keep getting hacked.

Re: Bitcoinica MtGox account compromised

#88
post #48
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean 3372% interest— The 7% number is _per-week_.

I'm not sure why anyone would believe him enough to send him money. Perhaps they don't understand how absurd that claimed interest rate is? :x

If the money were funding a payday loan shop, that's the kind of interest rate they charge to their customers.

ie, take in money via Bitcoin, loan out dollars to poor people as payday loans at very high rapidly compounding interest rate, pay somewhat smaller interest rate to Bitcoin funders.

Re: Bitcoinica MtGox account compromised

#89
post #79
post #6

I can't believe people entrust virtual money to sites like these which in general - but consistently - seem to be run by amateurs.

AFAIK Bitcoinica was the only site offering BTC derivatives, so presumably some people figured the potential profit was worth the risk. More generally, all Bitcoin exchanges seem to be run by amateurs, so people have to deal with them to cash out.

Derivatives as in options/futures/swaps/even more exotic?

That is quite possibly the scariest financial product ever devised, assuming there was nobody putting together complex products based on Zimbabwean currency during their period of massive inflation.

Re: Bitcoinica MtGox account compromised

#90

Is it really that hard to imagine that this is an inside job? Come on... 4 or 5 big money-losing breaches? To the tune of what? A million dollars? And nobody is talking about cooperation between insiders and this "hacker" ?

Hanlon's razor. If anything, attacking via their hosting company shows bitconica are more secure than the vast majority of internet companies. The attacks took more effort than those on HBgary (a dedicated security firm), LinkedIn, Lastfm (who I know have more clue than most internet companies), ....

Even in 2012, internet security is still a joke. There's no need to invoke conspiracies.

Post reply on HN