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Linux Asceticism

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Re: Linux Asceticism

#81

Post by lambdaba »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #78
lambdaba wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Books app is even better! But a programmer it's just as quick to run shrinkpdf in a Linux terminal, and, well, more ascetic. I do think Sumatra PDF is good for Windows software, it's not bloated and it's fast.

> it's just as quick to run shrinkpdf in a Linux terminal, and, well, more ascetic. certainly, but 99% computer user never ever opened the terminal. And even then, good luck rotating page 4 of by 270° using terminal, then inverting it with page 5 and filling the form. Things that would take 5 seconds on preview.

true, until someone hooks up Linux to an LLM and being CLI driven it would have no problems doing this & more (Also, I think PDF viewers can do that well in Linux too, I only use a minimal viewer so I don't know)

Re: Linux Asceticism

#82

Post by kugurerdem »

chrisvalleybay wrote: post #4

A very interesting perspective that really resonates with me. My ventures into Linux have been mostly characterized by this. I still remember, when running Ubuntu on my main machine, not being satisfied because I felt like I couldn't «grip it» and the enormous amount of learning I had to do in order to run Arch on my main box. Although I today run MacOS on all devices, and only interface with Linux on servers, I am g…

That's a great way to put it!

I’ve gradually started using more UX-friendly alternatives to the tools I've used for so long, and I don’t think the time spent learning those lower-level tools was wasted at all.

If I ever switch to a MacBook (since they're easy to carry around and have good battery life), I’d probably feel the same way as you do. But I don't see that happening shortly since I don't see an immediate need or benefit of it.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#83

Post by mech422 »

jwells89 wrote: post #75
adhamsalama wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are countless Windows themes for KDE. You can make KDE look like anything with a theme.

Themes are great, but they're surface level and don't change the numerous little behavioral/UX differences between KDE and whichever version of Windows. They also require the user to have gotten as far as to discover that KDE supports themes and downloading, installing, and enabling the theme. That's why I think a fork that implements the requisite changes would be of value.

What exactly would change ? Only thing I can think of 'normal' users using is ctrl-c/ctrl-v which already work in KDE (even ctrl-win-arrow for virtual desktops could be configured without a fork.)? Different icons/shortcuts wouldn't require forking KDE...Not sure what else you'd change?

Re: Linux Asceticism

#84

Post by Findecanor »

sph wrote: post #12
sevensor wrote: post #2

It’s funny, I feel quite the opposite. Using windows is a form of asceticism, and Linux is the easy way. Everything just works under Linux, but under Windows, things go wrong for no apparent reason, the system installs updates and reboots without me telling it to, there is massive network traffic that I didn’t initiate, none of my tools work properly, there are ads on the start menu, and software I know I installed i…

Using Windows when you're accustomed to Linux is masochism, which is not the opposite of asceticism. I had to install Windows recently, and for all the few hours I used it I had Marie Kondo's voice in my head saying this does not spark joy.

I have to use MS-Windows at work. It feels as if I'm in an abusive relationship with an partner who gaslights me at very turn but I can't leave him because we have kids and I feel I have an obligation to care for them. The partner (i.e. Microsoft) is the sado-masochist.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#85

Post by fragmede »

Findecanor wrote: post #84
sph wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using Windows when you're accustomed to Linux is masochism, which is not the opposite of asceticism. I had to install Windows recently, and for all the few hours I used it I had Marie Kondo's voice in my head saying this does not spark joy.

I have to use MS-Windows at work. It feels as if I'm in an abusive relationship with an partner who gaslights me at very turn but I can't leave him because we have kids and I feel I have an obligation to care for them. The partner (i.e. Microsoft) is the sado-masochist.

Isn't it Microsoft that's the sadist but that you're a masochist for staying after your realization?

Re: Linux Asceticism

#86

Post by jwells89 »

mech422 wrote: post #83
jwells89 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Themes are great, but they're surface level and don't change the numerous little behavioral/UX differences between KDE and whichever version of Windows. They also require the user to have gotten as far as to discover that KDE supports themes and downloading, installing, and enabling the theme. That's why I think a fork that implements the requisite changes would be of value.

What exactly would change ? Only thing I can think of 'normal' users using is ctrl-c/ctrl-v which already work in KDE (even ctrl-win-arrow for virtual desktops could be configured without a fork.)? Different icons/shortcuts wouldn't require forking KDE...Not sure what else you'd change?

If I sat down to compose the list, it'd be full of lots of small things. Think how under KDE, the file copy progress UI is a semi-persistent notification banner instead of a normal dialog like it's always been on Windows. While each of these differences on their own aren't likely to pose issues, in aggregate they can give an impression of the DE being more unfamiliar/alien (and thus, daunting) than it actually is.

I would probably also overhaul the settings app. For example, the whole Appearance & Style group and its two drill-down sections could be pretty easily reworked into a single panel that directly surfaces the most pertinent settings while tucking away the rest under an "Advanced…" button that opens a modal — with themes for example the average user will at most be interested in changing the global theme. Only advanced users even know the difference between window decorations, application styles, etc much less want to be able to change any of those individually.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#87

Post by acomjean »

fulafel wrote: post #35
acomjean wrote: post #19

I don’t know. I’ve bought a few machines with popos. They’ve been so few issues, that I haven’t learned that much new about administering them. I’ll install stuff from the command line but generally stick to the gui tools. And they work. I’m able to do my programming tasks with minimal issues.

The article is about "using a minimal Linux distro" which is a bit different.

He mentions arch. I thought that was a standard distribution (though I think I’m mixing it up with Manjaro, which we used one machine when our European intern installed it)

I have to dig a little deeper. Thanks

Re: Linux Asceticism

#88

Post by sph »

kugurerdem wrote: post #72
diego_sandoval wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using Windows is unnecessary suffering. You suffer only because someone decided that you should suffer. Using Linux, you suffer for better reasons that may even be worth it in some cases.

Exactly! You suffer regardless of what you choose, but how you suffer and what for differs.

You suffer for a corporation when you use Windows, and they get richer and greedier.

When you use Linux, your suffering might push you to break and waste a weekend fixing an upstream bug, from which the entire world benefits for free. When you use Linux, your suffering builds positive karma, and next life you get to reincarnate as a cat, released from the hell that is software engineering.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#89

Post by mech422 »

jwells89 wrote: post #86
mech422 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly would change ? Only thing I can think of 'normal' users using is ctrl-c/ctrl-v which already work in KDE (even ctrl-win-arrow for virtual desktops could be configured without a fork.)? Different icons/shortcuts wouldn't require forking KDE...Not sure what else you'd change?

If I sat down to compose the list, it'd be full of lots of small things. Think how under KDE, the file copy progress UI is a semi-persistent notification banner instead of a normal dialog like it's always been on Windows. While each of these differences on their own aren't likely to pose issues, in aggregate they can give an impression of the DE being more unfamiliar/alien (and thus, daunting) than it actually is. I…

Hmm - I'm not sure those sorts of things would require a fork per se, but I can see making it more familiar to windows/mac users could be a good thing. I was just curious as I was a big KDE fan back when I used Linux full time, and wondered what had changed.

The two biggest issues I'd have with Linux full time would be audio and video. I haven't even attempted to run Linux audio in like 5-10 years - it was always so titchy with multiple 'standards' to configure. Video was not quite as bad, as I don't game much so I just needed basic functionality. But now I have multiple 4k monitors, high dpi, and all that jazz, I don't know how big a pain it would be. I just run linux in VMs (standard device drivers and setup) or ssh into a linux server for now.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#90

Post by jwells89 »

mech422 wrote: post #89
jwells89 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I sat down to compose the list, it'd be full of lots of small things. Think how under KDE, the file copy progress UI is a semi-persistent notification banner instead of a normal dialog like it's always been on Windows. While each of these differences on their own aren't likely to pose issues, in aggregate they can give an impression of the DE being more unfamiliar/alien (and thus, daunting) than it actually is. I…

Hmm - I'm not sure those sorts of things would require a fork per se, but I can see making it more familiar to windows/mac users could be a good thing. I was just curious as I was a big KDE fan back when I used Linux full time, and wondered what had changed. The two biggest issues I'd have with Linux full time would be audio and video. I haven't even attempted to run Linux audio in like 5-10 years - it was always so…

A fork wouldn't be explicitly required, but generally in established FOSS projects, when attempting to make changes that are either large or widely peppered throughout the project you're going to be fighting against headwinds from people who are happy with project as it is, which is understandable. You're likely going to find yourself spending more time on negotiating and politicking to get changes committed than actually making changes.

Audio/video has more to do the distribution being used than it does one's desktop environment, though the DEs can do things to smartly design configuration UI and surface the most commonly used A/V settings in the right places.

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