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Linux Asceticism

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Re: Linux Asceticism

#71

Post by eternityforest »

sevensor wrote: post #2

It’s funny, I feel quite the opposite. Using windows is a form of asceticism, and Linux is the easy way. Everything just works under Linux, but under Windows, things go wrong for no apparent reason, the system installs updates and reboots without me telling it to, there is massive network traffic that I didn’t initiate, none of my tools work properly, there are ads on the start menu, and software I know I installed i…

Windows is great except when it does something unpredictable. It will be amazing for months at a time before it decides it's update time.

But they get a lot of things right, like their backwards compatibility via statically linked packages and a large "standard library".

Unfortunately it's all proprietary and doesn't work if you can't live with the random updates, or if you need to support small cheap embedded things well...

Re: Linux Asceticism

#72

Post by kugurerdem »

diego_sandoval wrote: post #18
sevensor wrote: post #2

It’s funny, I feel quite the opposite. Using windows is a form of asceticism, and Linux is the easy way. Everything just works under Linux, but under Windows, things go wrong for no apparent reason, the system installs updates and reboots without me telling it to, there is massive network traffic that I didn’t initiate, none of my tools work properly, there are ads on the start menu, and software I know I installed i…

Using Windows is unnecessary suffering. You suffer only because someone decided that you should suffer. Using Linux, you suffer for better reasons that may even be worth it in some cases.

Exactly! You suffer regardless of what you choose, but how you suffer and what for differs.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#73

Post by oldgun »

I’ve been using Linux for a long time for personal purposes and I understand what the blog says. But I also feel like it doesn’t have to be this way: Linux should be easy to use, with little hassle, friendly to newbies, with a community of support.

Over the years Linux desktop has indeed improved, but still with much problems to use. We should adopt a growth mindset instead of sticking to asceticism.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#74

Post by TZubiri »

fallingsquirrel wrote: post #62
TZubiri wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we have different definitions of ascetism. It's about having less, not more. Less guis, less random traffic, etc.. That said, linux is in a way like processed foods, and windows is organic. Linux is distilled down to the essential components through chemistry, it's like sugar or table salt, or maltodextrine. Windows is just a thing that is alive, but not even a single thing, it has a flora that the manufactur…

> That said, linux is in a way like processed foods, and windows is organic. I would have said the opposite. Linux is organic - you get the bare essentials (whatever grew from the ground), and little more. Windows is highly processed - you get the food, but also the chemicals and sugars and additives (AI in your taskbar! Candy Crush and political clickbait in your start menu!) designed to keep you addicted and coming…

I can see how you would think that. The concept of purity is double edged, on the one hand it can seem pure to eat an apple from a tree, but on the other hand, raw sugar has a very high purity!

So windows is pure in the first sense, but linux is pure in the second sense.

You say that with linux you get the bare essentials, whatever grew from the ground, but take a look at the size of a linux distro, linux is actually very distilled, Windows is RAW. You get a binary in there that nobody knows how it got there and there is no source code.

There is source code/recipe/ingredient list/dependency manifest for a vanilla and fudge pastrie, but there is no source code for an apple/windows, you get what it is. For the most part windows didn't have source code in the early stages themselves, it's not like they kept the source code hidden under lock, rather they discarded it or lost it to the ages. It's like compilers, it's just something that grows over a couple of generations from the previous version.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#75

Post by jwells89 »

adhamsalama wrote: post #63
jwells89 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KDE is solid but I think is just different enough to throw off less technically oriented would-be switchers. I think a fork of KDE that changes it to be more of a 1:1 match to Windows would be highly beneficial here, especially if this fork has a dropdown menu that can switch which version of Windows it mimics (lots of people miss 7 and XP and would find a zero effort way to get that experience back tempting).

There are countless Windows themes for KDE. You can make KDE look like anything with a theme.

Themes are great, but they're surface level and don't change the numerous little behavioral/UX differences between KDE and whichever version of Windows. They also require the user to have gotten as far as to discover that KDE supports themes and downloading, installing, and enabling the theme.

That's why I think a fork that implements the requisite changes would be of value.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#76

Post by TacticalCoder »

I used to run Xen on my desktop as the hypervisor and then have hardware virtualized guests.

This was circa 2008 or so and I feel now is the time to dump my regular Debian and go for Proxmox VE... For my desktop. I'm no Proxmox dev but I know some are using Proxmox on their main desktop/workstation.

I kinda feel it's would be pretty ascetic: running an hypervisor and all your other stuff only inside guests requires self-discipline. It's a bit more involved than just installing a Linux OS and all the software directly onto the "main" Linux.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#77

Post by fsflover »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #76

I used to run Xen on my desktop as the hypervisor and then have hardware virtualized guests. This was circa 2008 or so and I feel now is the time to dump my regular Debian and go for Proxmox VE... For my desktop. I'm no Proxmox dev but I know some are using Proxmox on their main desktop/workstation. I kinda feel it's would be pretty ascetic: running an hypervisor and all your other stuff only inside guests requires s…

You basically just described Qubes OS, which I use as a daily driver.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#78

Post by aucisson_masque »

lambdaba wrote: post #68
aucisson_masque wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugly as hell, can't make light edit like remove or add page, compress pdf. It's all free in macos preview app and it just works. No one want to spend 30 minutes looking for website that allow to compress pdf because it's a slightly too big to be sent through email...

The Books app is even better! But a programmer it's just as quick to run shrinkpdf in a Linux terminal, and, well, more ascetic. I do think Sumatra PDF is good for Windows software, it's not bloated and it's fast.

> it's just as quick to run shrinkpdf in a Linux terminal, and, well, more ascetic.

certainly, but 99% computer user never ever opened the terminal. And even then, good luck rotating page 4 of by 270° using terminal, then inverting it with page 5 and filling the form.

Things that would take 5 seconds on preview.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#79

Post by BoingBoomTschak »

TZubiri wrote: post #41
sevensor wrote: post #2

It’s funny, I feel quite the opposite. Using windows is a form of asceticism, and Linux is the easy way. Everything just works under Linux, but under Windows, things go wrong for no apparent reason, the system installs updates and reboots without me telling it to, there is massive network traffic that I didn’t initiate, none of my tools work properly, there are ads on the start menu, and software I know I installed i…

Perhaps we have different definitions of ascetism. It's about having less, not more. Less guis, less random traffic, etc.. That said, linux is in a way like processed foods, and windows is organic. Linux is distilled down to the essential components through chemistry, it's like sugar or table salt, or maltodextrine. Windows is just a thing that is alive, but not even a single thing, it has a flora that the manufactur…

That green thing on the moldy slice of bread you forgot somewhere is also alive... =)

Re: Linux Asceticism

#80

Post by adhamsalama »

jwells89 wrote: post #75
adhamsalama wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are countless Windows themes for KDE. You can make KDE look like anything with a theme.

Themes are great, but they're surface level and don't change the numerous little behavioral/UX differences between KDE and whichever version of Windows. They also require the user to have gotten as far as to discover that KDE supports themes and downloading, installing, and enabling the theme. That's why I think a fork that implements the requisite changes would be of value.

KDE global themes can get you a long way though.
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