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Uber Is Locking Out NYC Drivers Mid-Shift to Lower Minimum Pay

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Re: Uber Is Locking Out NYC Drivers Mid-Shift to Lower Minimum Pay

#81

Post by mrgoldenbrown »

crazygringo wrote: post #79

First of all, this is partially the result of clearly terrible lawmaking: > In emails to drivers, Uber and Lyft have blamed each other — and the commission — for lockouts. In its minimum-pay formula, the TLC calculates non-passenger time as an industry average. When Lyft drivers aren’t as busy, for example, Uber has to increase driver pay because non-passenger time is higher on average. “The city’s rule bizarrely hol…

>during times of low demand, Uber/Lyft/etc. are forced to simply boot off a bunch of drivers so that there are enough fares left for the remaining drivers so they will be able to make minimum wage.

You are claiming a false binary. They could hire drivers as employees. Or work together as an industry to make things work out, the same way they cooperate to oppose any legislation that threatens profits or promises worker rights.

Re: Uber Is Locking Out NYC Drivers Mid-Shift to Lower Minimum Pay

#82

Post by crazygringo »

CPLX wrote: post #66
holowoodman wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there a subway connection or something? I mean, it is an international airport and a big city...

LMFAO welcome to New York. We have three major large scale airports, and none of them are connected to the subway. It would be comical if it wasn’t so sad.

That's not really true.

You can take the subway to JFK -- it's the A train. Or even faster, take the LIRR. For both, you have to transfer to the AirTrain for the last short stretch, but that train brings you directly to each terminal so you'd need to get on it anyways.

And you can take NJ Transit light rail from Penn Station to Newark, it's 3 stops. It's not technically the subway -- but it's better because it goes faster and there are less stops.

LaGuardia is the only airport you can't get to by train -- there was an attempt [1] but it was cancelled last year. But one of the big reasons for cancellation is that it was crazy expensive and you can already get to the airport pretty easily if you're willing to hop on bus connection from the subway or LIRR.

So I'd say the situation isn't that sad. For Newark and JFK it's totally fine, and for LaGuardia you just need to add a bus.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTrain_LaGuardia

Re: Uber Is Locking Out NYC Drivers Mid-Shift to Lower Minimum Pay

#83

Post by crazygringo »

mrgoldenbrown wrote: post #81
crazygringo wrote: post #79

First of all, this is partially the result of clearly terrible lawmaking: > In emails to drivers, Uber and Lyft have blamed each other — and the commission — for lockouts. In its minimum-pay formula, the TLC calculates non-passenger time as an industry average. When Lyft drivers aren’t as busy, for example, Uber has to increase driver pay because non-passenger time is higher on average. “The city’s rule bizarrely hol…

>during times of low demand, Uber/Lyft/etc. are forced to simply boot off a bunch of drivers so that there are enough fares left for the remaining drivers so they will be able to make minimum wage. You are claiming a false binary. They could hire drivers as employees. Or work together as an industry to make things work out, the same way they cooperate to oppose any legislation that threatens profits or promises worke…

Yeah, that's how it worked previously with taxi medallions. They "worked together as an industry" and medallion owners extorted drivers and it was impossible to get a cab at rush hour and taxis were dirty and reeked of cigarette smoke because there was no competition.

The simple fact is, if you want enough vehicles to meet peak demand, then a lot of those drivers and vehicles aren't needed the rest of the day. That's just economics. It's not a false binary, it's simply how supply and demand works. You either kick a bunch of them off or lower the pay until they a bunch of them kick themselves off.

Or you go back to not meeting demand so that all drivers can work full time, and it once again becomes impossible to get a ride during rush hour.

Re: Uber Is Locking Out NYC Drivers Mid-Shift to Lower Minimum Pay

#84

Post by mrgoldenbrown »

WheatMillington wrote: post #62
AdamJacobMuller wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also sucks for the riders and I really can't imagine Uber likes the situation either. It's a really annoying situation because you end up arguing with some driver over text or worse in person about it. They don't want to cancel because cancelling a lot impacts their rating with uber and they will get less rides. I don't want to cancel because after a few minutes I'll be charged a cancellation fee and now I have to…

Help me understand this as I'm not in NY and I use uber about 2-3 times a year. When you use Uber you put in your destination up-front - so everyone already knows where you are and where you're going, why isn't this information used by drivers to make a decision on whether or not to accept?

You are describing an example of how Uber works in your region. That is not how it works in every jurisdiction. Uber often hides information from drivers to prevent them from choosing only profitable rides. Other gig companies do the same thing.

Re: Uber Is Locking Out NYC Drivers Mid-Shift to Lower Minimum Pay

#85

Post by gruez »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #42

Like it or not, in the current US Capitalist's Environment (as opposed to some mythical earlier time when corporations were supposed to have some social responsibility), in this current environment, Humans are a Commodity. If there is a human surplus, the cost(pay) goes down. If there is a human shortage, the price(pay) goes up. When there are fewer desperate humans needing Uber to eat, and Uber can't find drivers, t…

>Like it or not, in the current US Capitalist's Environment (as opposed to some mythical earlier time when corporations were supposed to have some social responsibility), in this current environment, Humans are a Commodity.

Is that supposed to be bad? "Commodity" just means something that could be bought and sold. Is it bad that I can buy people's time, or that I can sell my time? Was it better in communism where you couldn't buy or sell labor because it was all controlled by the state, and you still had to work? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_parasitism_(offense)

Re: Uber Is Locking Out NYC Drivers Mid-Shift to Lower Minimum Pay

#86

Post by Ferret7446 »

WheatMillington wrote: post #65
elmerfud wrote: post #3

"...making it difficult for drivers to plan work shifts and treat Uber as a full-time job." So which is it they want flexible gig work that they can do at their own schedule in their own pace, or do they want planned work shifts in a full-time job. It seems what drivers are really asking for his money without any work. Because taking flexible gig work means you have the flexibility to work when you want without plann…

You're setting an incredibly low bar for what we should accept. We're talking about people's livelihoods here - their ability to put food on their family's table.

Companies are not obliged to hire people so they can feed themselves.

More nihilistically/pragmatically, reality is not obliged to ensure humans can live happy lives or even survive.

(And the difference between reality and fantasy is that reality asserts itself even if you don't accept it.)

Re: Uber Is Locking Out NYC Drivers Mid-Shift to Lower Minimum Pay

#87

Post by CPLX »

crazygringo wrote: post #82
CPLX wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LMFAO welcome to New York. We have three major large scale airports, and none of them are connected to the subway. It would be comical if it wasn’t so sad.

That's not really true. You can take the subway to JFK -- it's the A train. Or even faster, take the LIRR. For both, you have to transfer to the AirTrain for the last short stretch, but that train brings you directly to each terminal so you'd need to get on it anyways. And you can take NJ Transit light rail from Penn Station to Newark, it's 3 stops. It's not technically the subway -- but it's better because it goes f…

Yeah no. You can take the subway to a LIRR station called Jamaica or a parking lot in Howard Beach. Neither is actually at the airport let alone within a mile of an actual check in counter.

NJ transit isn’t a subway, and even so you still can’t take it to Newark Airport. You can get off a mile or two from the nearest terminal. Utterly inexplicably, the PATH train, which is reasonably described as a subway system, stops an entire stop short of even doing that, despite the tracks continuing onwards to that AirTrain station.

Once you get off each of these subways, in a location that is near to, but definitely not in, an airport, you may choose to take a slow and oddly expensive rubber wheeled bus that sort of is a monorail (and is certainly not a subway) device onwards to a terminal.

And of course at LaGuardia you can’t do even that.

So yes, it is “really true” that you can’t take the fucking subway to the airport.

All you have to is try it, get off the subway, and then ask “am I in an airport now?” and if the answer is no then you’ve figured out the problem.

Re: Uber Is Locking Out NYC Drivers Mid-Shift to Lower Minimum Pay

#88

Post by gruez »

mrgoldenbrown wrote: post #81
crazygringo wrote: post #79

First of all, this is partially the result of clearly terrible lawmaking: > In emails to drivers, Uber and Lyft have blamed each other — and the commission — for lockouts. In its minimum-pay formula, the TLC calculates non-passenger time as an industry average. When Lyft drivers aren’t as busy, for example, Uber has to increase driver pay because non-passenger time is higher on average. “The city’s rule bizarrely hol…

>during times of low demand, Uber/Lyft/etc. are forced to simply boot off a bunch of drivers so that there are enough fares left for the remaining drivers so they will be able to make minimum wage. You are claiming a false binary. They could hire drivers as employees. Or work together as an industry to make things work out, the same way they cooperate to oppose any legislation that threatens profits or promises worke…

>You are claiming a false binary. They could hire drivers as employees.

Isn't that what's essentially happening today? They're forced to "hire drivers as employees" (insofar as being guaranteed pay even if there's no work to be done), and the results were predictable: the firms simply refuse to hire all the drivers. Previously they were willing to take on anyone they can, because they didn't have to pay for them even if they didn't have work for them.

Re: Uber Is Locking Out NYC Drivers Mid-Shift to Lower Minimum Pay

#89

Post by [deleted] »

tivert wrote: post #73
szundi wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question is how many of these needs to be added for all the rogue cities

> Question is how many of these needs to be added for all the rogue cities "Rogue cities," seriously? I've seen some twisted propaganda ("PR") in my life, but that takes the cake.

[deleted]

Re: Uber Is Locking Out NYC Drivers Mid-Shift to Lower Minimum Pay

#90

Post by gruez »

tivert wrote: post #70
jtriangle wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber could certainly throw additional tech at this problem, but, realistically, the problem is the fault of NYC, not Uber. If NYC got rid of their antiquated laws, this would be a non-issue, and, rides would likely be cheaper and easier to obtain. Not to mention you really don't want big names like Uber/Lyft to be the only players that can enter the game because they have the resources to enter a complex regulatory m…

> Uber could certainly throw additional tech at this problem, but, realistically, the problem is the fault of NYC, not Uber. If NYC got rid of their antiquated laws, this would be a non-issue, and, rides would likely be cheaper and easier to obtain. No, you've got it ass-backwards. It's Uber's job to provide the best customer experience given their constraints, it's not NYC's job to bend over backwards to adapt its l…

>No, you've got it ass-backwards. It's Uber's job to provide the best customer experience given their constraints, it's not NYC's job to bend over backwards to adapt its laws to Uber's model.

>The problem is the fault of Uber.

Are you claiming that the government can do no wrong regardless of what laws they pass?

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