Even Apple cannot explain why we need AI in our lives • Hacker News Board

Re: Even Apple cannot explain why we need AI in our lives

#81

Post by lovethevoid » Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 3:53 PM UTC

tmpz22 wrote: post #19

thepasswordis wrote: post #13

It certainly feels like the AI bubble is popping. Code completion is a great use, some writing tools are nice, I love chatGPT for information lookup (while knowing that it hallucinates), ChatGPT/whatever is great for generating icons and some images, and it’s much better at writing in corpo than I am. But…Nvidia as the most valuable company in the world? $1B valuations for freshly minted companies? Radical changes to…

If it is a pop how can Big Tech walk it back? Am I overreacting here or have companies like Google and Microsoft pimped out their reputations in an irreversible fashion?

One thing big tech is very good at is walking it back. Microsoft was one of the earlier big adopters of cryptocurrency, and now it’s nowhere to be found. Nobody cares because Microsoft didn’t make a big deal out of it.

Because current AI is effectively being pitched as assistants 2.0, I don’t see them wiping AI from their lineup, but letting it rot is a possibility as they all have done for their v1 assistants.

Due to the attention economy, most aren’t going to care within a year. Google is still a dominant company despite killing off beloved services so if they can do that, the others certainly can weather failed AI products.

There might be some exceptions like Adobe, it depends on what they do. That’s my take on it anyways, in general there was just way too much pumped into AI without much thorough thought. The fact that Rabbit was even a thing people got hyped over speaks volumes to how out of touch with reality current AI pushes are.

Re: Even Apple cannot explain why we need AI in our lives

#82

Post by erulabs » Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 3:53 PM UTC

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #25

Yada-yada-yada, we don't need a lot of things, depending on how you define 'need'. It is an interesting philosophical question, but when analyzing what products a company decides to bring to market it is completely irrelevant . You can't make money fulfilling 'needs' unless there is also demand, but you can certainly make money fulfilling demand regardless of what some newspaper decides you 'need'. (I would imagine t…

one could say that what the market is is simply the lack of newspapers having the ability to decide what people do and don’t need

Re: Even Apple cannot explain why we need AI in our lives

#83

Post by mg » Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 3:54 PM UTC

AI is already so woven into my life. I use it all the time and wouldn't want to go back.

For example I made a bookmarklet that summarizes articles linked from HN. So the way I have skimmed this article is by reading this:

    Apple's new AI offering, Apple Intelligence,
    seems unoriginal and derivative compared to
    competitors.

    Apple is partnering with OpenAI to integrate
    ChatGPT, but the integration appears
    halfhearted.

    The article questions if Apple's approach can
    truly unlock the potential of generative AI.

The prompt I use is:

    Make up to three short bullet points about what
    the following page is about. Under no circumstances
    make any of the bullet points longer than 40 words.
    The page:

And then I append the text content of the page.

It is a very crude approach. Not sure how well it really covers the most important points. But I already like these summaries to decide if I dive deeper. And over time the summaries will only get better.

I think AI will be part of most UIs in a few years.

Re: Even Apple cannot explain why we need AI in our lives

#84

Post by neilv » Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 3:54 PM UTC

greenpizza13 wrote: post #35

neilv wrote: post #9

Right now, the main consumer uses of LLMs and generative AI seem to be for cheating at homework and their jobs, when quality is not a high priority.

It's hard to know if this take is meant to be taken seriously... it's so detached from at least how people on HN use LLMs. "Cheating at homework." Is a calculator cheating? Was using encyclopedias cheating? What about wikipedia? What about Wolfram Alpha? This mentality that one must do all work originally or it's cheating is not how learning works / should work. We should teach kids how to leverage all the tools they…

I said "consumer", not HN niche.

Pedagogy is not about marketing spin of cheating as "tools at their disposal".

There are often reasons for having learning exercises, and reasons when introducing tools to that.

When you go to the gym, you don't use a forklift for the free weights, and you don't slap a motor on the stationary bike.

Re: Even Apple cannot explain why we need AI in our lives

#85

Post by AlexandrB » Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 3:54 PM UTC

python_pele wrote: post #54

nharada wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It’s not solved 2. Actuation and sensing

3. cost

Yup, I don't think there's a mass market for humanoid robots that cost as much as a high-end car - at least not yet. If you have that kind of money, you can just hire a person and it's a lot easier to get a person to do things how you want.

Re: Even Apple cannot explain why we need AI in our lives

#86

Post by iknownthing » Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 3:55 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #68

thepasswordis wrote: post #13

It certainly feels like the AI bubble is popping. Code completion is a great use, some writing tools are nice, I love chatGPT for information lookup (while knowing that it hallucinates), ChatGPT/whatever is great for generating icons and some images, and it’s much better at writing in corpo than I am. But…Nvidia as the most valuable company in the world? $1B valuations for freshly minted companies? Radical changes to…

> It certainly feels like the AI bubble is popping. Objectively, no it doesn't. Even if you think it's a bubble, then the bubble is just growing. There are zero signs of anything popping yet. Company valuations are only increasing. > Nvidia as the most valuable company in the world? It makes sense when you look at the financials. It's like back in 1800's when railroads were the new thing, and imagine there were only…

The locomotive analogy doesn't quite fit. The customers of the locomotive company would buy the locomotives and then use them to profit. Are Nvidia's customers making a profit from the billions they are spending on GPUs? I don't think so, at least not yet.

Re: Even Apple cannot explain why we need AI in our lives

#87

Post by Theodores » Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 3:55 PM UTC

cogman10 wrote: post #27

tmpz22 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is a pop how can Big Tech walk it back? Am I overreacting here or have companies like Google and Microsoft pimped out their reputations in an irreversible fashion?

How did big tech walk back crypto, ML, Web 2.0? They really don't need to walk back anything. If the features are too expensive to support and ultimately unused, then they'll just quietly kill them off. Otherwise, it'll just be another feature in the feature lists. Not something that really buys anything but also not something making them a lot of money.

There is a difference in zealotry.

With blockchain technology there were many people prepared to die on that hill. It was going to solve world hunger albeit not the obesity epidemic. It also had all of its own lingo for not selling or buying the dip.

I remember people saying how things would be replaced with blockchain technology such as ecommerce, and apps 'on the chain' would find many thousands of uses. People were quite insistent.

On HN you risked getting modded down to hell and shadowbanned for life if you said anything wrongful about crypto. It was bizarre.

With AI we don't have this level of zealotry. You can say it is a load of rubbish and nobody wants to kill you. Weird, but indicative that AI has found some use, even if it is for 'art' and just marketing.

Nonetheless, if someone does get a bit zealous about it, I can tell them that I have all problems solved already with blockchain technology apps, just for trolling value.

Re: Even Apple cannot explain why we need AI in our lives

#88

Post by etrvic » Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 3:56 PM UTC

retrocryptid wrote: post #15

I know Apple is relevant because they have a lot of money. But when was the last time their products were relevant? 2008 w/ the iPhone? 2010 with the iPad? 2002 w/ the iPod? MacBooks in 1998? Most of my family uses iPhones and it's painful to watch them struggle with basic tasks. My mom tries to find out how to access gmail instead of me.com. My brother downloads yet another app to add metadata to pictures. No one at…

>But when was the last time their products were relevant?

You can't neglect the fact that, despite their lack of innovation while sitting on a huge pile of money, Apple has brought a few good things in the last decade. For example, their use of ARM chips in Macs has influenced other companies to adopt this architecture, which in some ways is better than x86. Another product market they opened up with their "innovation" is the AirPods, which are, in my opinion, better for daily tasks than bulky headphones as they are easier to carry around and more discreet.

>But I've never understood why a device from a secretive, developer-hostile company is supposed to be some amazing tool.

An iPhone may lack some basic features, but I find the overall experience more polished than Android.

>I know there are people who positively love their iPhone and the status it apparently confers in their friends group.

My 2021 iPhone SE doesn't confer me any status, but I agree that some people just buy iPhones because they are expensive.

Anyway, in the end, it's about everyone's opinion. But Apple’s AI seems like overkill. I definitely don't want AI spilled into every app that is on my phone. I'm happy using the phone app, taking photos whenever I feel like it, and keeping in touch with my friends over WhatsApp/Discord/Messages.

Re: Even Apple cannot explain why we need AI in our lives

#89

Post by JohnFen » Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 3:57 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #68

thepasswordis wrote: post #13

It certainly feels like the AI bubble is popping. Code completion is a great use, some writing tools are nice, I love chatGPT for information lookup (while knowing that it hallucinates), ChatGPT/whatever is great for generating icons and some images, and it’s much better at writing in corpo than I am. But…Nvidia as the most valuable company in the world? $1B valuations for freshly minted companies? Radical changes to…

> It certainly feels like the AI bubble is popping. Objectively, no it doesn't. Even if you think it's a bubble, then the bubble is just growing. There are zero signs of anything popping yet. Company valuations are only increasing. > Nvidia as the most valuable company in the world? It makes sense when you look at the financials. It's like back in 1800's when railroads were the new thing, and imagine there were only…

I think it's more like the San Francisco gold rush. The gold prospectors didn't make a lot of money. The people who made bank were the ones selling goods and services to the prospectors. Selling the shovels is more profitable, and has the bonus of not being dependent on whether or not your customers actually find gold.

Re: Even Apple cannot explain why we need AI in our lives

#90

Post by seunosewa » Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 3:58 PM UTC

GJim wrote: post #34

thepasswordis wrote: post #13

It certainly feels like the AI bubble is popping. Code completion is a great use, some writing tools are nice, I love chatGPT for information lookup (while knowing that it hallucinates), ChatGPT/whatever is great for generating icons and some images, and it’s much better at writing in corpo than I am. But…Nvidia as the most valuable company in the world? $1B valuations for freshly minted companies? Radical changes to…

> I love chatGPT for information lookup (while knowing that it hallucinates) Hallucinates? I'd use the term 'bullshits' when it doesn't know the right answer. This makes it a dangerous thing to trust.

You should trust it as much as you'd trust another human.

The quality of the LLM matters. The better LLMs don't hallucinate as much as the rest. ChatGPT-4 appears to be trained to consult the web when it receives questions for which it's likely to hallucinate, such as questions about hard figures.