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Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

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Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#81

Post by bombcar »

Dudhbbh3343 wrote: post #75
sneed_chucker wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When trains or buses crash, the majority of the passengers survive in most cases. When commercial airliners crash, usually everyone on board dies.

High speed trains in Japan have no screening at all. I imagine a well-placed bomb going off could have a similar number of casualties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago_de_Compostela_derailm...

It could almost certainly be extremely deadly if it happens. Man, these were the two main ones I recall - Spain has had some bad luck.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#82

Post by yongjik »

feoren wrote: post #26

If you're ever wondering why something in the U.S. can't be made better, the answer is often that the existing rent-collectors must be allowed to continue collecting their rent at all costs. This is why we can't have the government file taxes on our behalf: because Intuit would no longer be collecting rent, and rent-collecting must be protected at all costs. This is why we can't have a single-payer healthcare system:…

> the answer is often that the existing rent-collectors must be allowed to continue collecting their rent at all costs.

Well, to be fair, this is also the case in other parts of the world. They just differ in what part of the economy the rent-seekers have latched themselves on.

(Though I have to agree that allowing them into healthcare was a uniquely bone-headed decision.)

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#83

Post by BobaFloutist »

Fervicus wrote: post #79
kibwen wrote: post #5

We can stop dancing around the issue while pretending we don't understand why the TSA exists. In the aftermath of 9/11, the government has to be seen doing "something". This was the something. Then, in the following years, the TSA evolved into a welfare program for veterans, because here in the US we can't dream of just giving people money, we have to invent bullshit jobs that make society worse.

TSA emerged in the aftermath of 9/11; TSA is USA specific. But why has every other country has adopted this useless security protocol. I don't understand that.

We probably told them too. I assume US won't accept airplanes into its airspace with passengers that haven't been cleared to a security specification that looks almost identical to what TSA does.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#84

Post by eloisant »

Fervicus wrote: post #72
feoren wrote: post #26

If you're ever wondering why something in the U.S. can't be made better, the answer is often that the existing rent-collectors must be allowed to continue collecting their rent at all costs. This is why we can't have the government file taxes on our behalf: because Intuit would no longer be collecting rent, and rent-collecting must be protected at all costs. This is why we can't have a single-payer healthcare system:…

TSA is USA specific. But why are all other countries following the same security theater? Has any other country ditched it?

It's not the same level, you don't have to take off your shoes for example.

In some airports (like in Haneda) you don't even have to pull anything out of your bag. Bag on the conveyor belt, yourself through the gate and you're done.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#85

Post by BobaFloutist »

kyboren wrote: post #64

This is bullshit. It's a ploy to further under-staff the screening area and even further discourage people from exercising their right to a manual screening procedure that does not involve a full-body scan. I insist on a manual opt-out every time I fly, and I've noticed particularly in LAS that TSA seems intentionally to delay that screening process as an extrajudicial punishment and disincentive. It's outrageous and…

>What TSA needs is proper oversight, better KPIs, and a cultural overhaul to stop treating passengers so terribly. TSA ought to provide an SLA commitment, consistently and openly report on their actual service level, reward managers who improve it, and fire/demote those managers who degrade it.

I agree, we need to teach TSA to Scrum and we need to do it yesterday!

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#86

Post by BobaFloutist »

Spivak wrote: post #55
rwmj wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well one candidate has you covered. He wants to dismantle the DHS. Unfortunately his platform comes with a certain amount of other baggage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

Tangent: Is this something actually serious or is it more of saber-rattling manifesto because good lord it's terrifying.

Oh, it's serious. Sure, he doesn't have the logistical or institutional knowledge and abilities to actually execute on it on its own, but his allies do, and they've shown that they'll do whatever it takes to keep riding this tiger, even at the cost of the country.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#87

Post by ianburrell »

Spivak wrote: post #55
rwmj wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well one candidate has you covered. He wants to dismantle the DHS. Unfortunately his platform comes with a certain amount of other baggage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

Tangent: Is this something actually serious or is it more of saber-rattling manifesto because good lord it's terrifying.

It is completely serious. It is put out by the Heritage Foundation and has input from a bunch of conservative organizations including many with close ties to Trump campaign.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#88

Post by BobaFloutist »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #18
jackphilson wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a detterence factor in play. Terrorists won't try to get through precisely because of the intense security.

If there were terrorists, they would just open fire on the crowded security checkpoints and kill hundreds of people without any complex scheme. This doesn't happen because there is no terrorist threat we need to be on guard against.

I used to think this until I realized that the theoretical point isn't to prevent great loss of life, it's to prevent the usage of airplanes as a weapon. Malls, subways, concerts, sports games were always target-rich...targets, but a plane can be used to attack infrastructure and militarily significant targets (e.g. the Pentagon) and to kill far more people with lighter weapons than you could otherwise.

Of course, this could never happen. It's been said to death, but the conventional wisdom before 9/11 was to allow plane hijackers to run their course and assume that all they wanted was cash, to just sit tight and wait for them to set down somewhere. Not even after, but mid 9/11 people realized that old paradigm was out and the passengers of the fourth plane the cockpit door, preventing the usage of the plane as a weapon.

Post 9/11, nobody could hijack a plane with box-cutters anymore - enough people would rather be stabbed than see their plane be used as a weapon that it's simply insufficient, especially since if they crash the plane you're probably dead anyway.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#89

Post by ethanbond »

eloisant wrote: post #84
Fervicus wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA is USA specific. But why are all other countries following the same security theater? Has any other country ditched it?

It's not the same level, you don't have to take off your shoes for example. In some airports (like in Haneda) you don't even have to pull anything out of your bag. Bag on the conveyor belt, yourself through the gate and you're done.

That sounds like TSA Precheck, which doing a basic background check to get seems very reasonable.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#90

Post by ethanbond »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #83
Fervicus wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA emerged in the aftermath of 9/11; TSA is USA specific. But why has every other country has adopted this useless security protocol. I don't understand that.

We probably told them too. I assume US won't accept airplanes into its airspace with passengers that haven't been cleared to a security specification that looks almost identical to what TSA does.

Or they don't want jihadists flying planes into their buildings either ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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