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Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

overkill.wtf

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Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#81

Post by Solvency »

withinboredom wrote: post #37
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. It's fairly easy to prove that if the emulator did not exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential; and considering how easy it is to show the percentage of pirating users versus legitimate users (probably 95%+), it's not a good look. There's also the issue that, unlike prior emulators, Yuzu risks running afoul of DMCA anti-trafficking provisions for circumvention devices and software that uses c…

> It's fairly easy to prove that if the emulator did not exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential That. Literally doesn't make any logical sense. That's like arguing that if computers didn't exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential ... or if electricity didn't exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential.

Of course, it doesn't make sense. But Nintendo has infinite money and infinite lawyers compared to these people. That means they can do whatever they want with the law.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#83

Post by withinboredom »

monocasa wrote: post #70
withinboredom wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the keys to be considered to fall under the DCMA, they'd have to be copyrighted.

Not under 1201. They can form a copyright circumvention device without being subject to copyright themselves as long as they're used to protect an actual copywritten work (in this case the encrypted game images).

I'm going to assume the encryption is not custom. If it is "off-the-shelf" then they'll have a real hard time proving that without making every browser on the internet a "copyright circumvention device."

But regardless, if they "distribute" (ie, can be freely read off the device without special tools) the keys in the clear, it isn't used to protect anything.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#85

Post by mardifoufs »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #30
bentley wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not necessarily. It's fairly easy to prove that if the emulator did not exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential… Well, no. Pirated Switch games can be played on a hacked Switch or a flashcart with no emulation necessary. Common sense suggests emulation would be significantly more common, but can Nintendo prove that in court, or prove that the leak wouldn’t have happened without Yuzu’s existence?

Nintendo can't prove the leak wouldn't have happened without Yuzu. But they don't have to. They can simply show that Yuzu made it infinitely worse. Also, suing Yuzu does not preclude suing emulator makers or flashcart makers - they can all be sued as they all have culpability.

What do you mean they just need to show that it made it worse ? What are you basing that on?

I don't know of any similar cases where an emulator or say, a video player (for example Kodi) was held liable for increasing demand?

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#86

Post by bee_rider »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #39
rottencupcakes wrote: post #20

[flagged]

Look man I'm all about emulation and hate litigious holders of IP but what you're describing here is just straight piracy. "I don't wanna buy the hardware" is not a sufficient excuse to steal a game.

We should ditch the word piracy; unauthorized copying might be illegal and maybe even immoral, but it has nothing to do with stealing a boat by either killing the crew or threatening them into submission. It was a dramatically over the top and silly comparison to have made.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#87

Post by Zambyte »

UberFly wrote: post #64
withinboredom wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's fairly easy to prove that if the emulator did not exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential That. Literally doesn't make any logical sense. That's like arguing that if computers didn't exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential ... or if electricity didn't exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential.

Logical sense? I can't really just play the pirated game on my home electricity. Just like you can't sue the road when a car runs you down.

I really can't just play the pirate game on a software emulator either. It needs an operating system to run on, hardware to run the operating system on, etc.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#88

Post by Acrobatic_Road »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #49
summerlight wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unlike prior emulators, Yuzu risks running afoul of DMCA anti-trafficking provisions for circumvention devices and software that uses circumvention devices This is interesting, it'd be great to have a link to explain this matter more deeply.

Sure. Just look up the DeCSS controversy which got the creator of a DVD ripping software arrested and barely avoiding extradition, or the 09 F9 controversy where the MPAA attempted to censor a number from the internet. This provision in the DMCA has been most often used against developers of unauthorized DVD copying software, Blu-ray copying software, etc; and the force of the legal argument has been well proven prev…

I wonder if it would be possible to develop a Switch emulator without the ability to decrypt any games. Users would be expected to bring already-decrypted games, which they could decrypt via an "unrelated" program.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#89

Post by ndiddy »

tavavex wrote: post #68
jsheard wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Common sense suggests emulation would be significantly more common, but can Nintendo prove that in court Nintendo is making that argument on the basis that Yuzu's Patreon income skyrocketed when TOTK leaked online. https://graphtreon.com/creator/yuzuteam It checks out, TOTK leaked on May 1st 2023 and Yuzus monthly income rose from $19k to $45k throughout May, having never broken $25k previously.

I'm confused as to how or why the Yuzu team would be held liable for this. Is it their responsibility to ensure that people don't donate money to them if the timing of that donation coincides with an unrelated leak of Nintendo's IP? If emulation is allowed and the Yuzu team itself isn't engaging in the promotion of piracy, I don't see what the case is here.

At the time Zelda leaked, it didn't work correctly in the release version of Yuzu. The lawsuit claims that the Yuzu team released a patched version that fixed the issue before the game's official retail launch date, but they have some sort of exclusivity period (looks like one week as far as I can tell) where new releases are exclusive to their Patreon before they become freely available. Nintendo is arguing that the large boost in Patreon subscribers was due to people wanting to get access to the patch so they could play Zelda early.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#90

Post by boolemancer »

monocasa wrote: post #70
withinboredom wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the keys to be considered to fall under the DCMA, they'd have to be copyrighted.

Not under 1201. They can form a copyright circumvention device without being subject to copyright themselves as long as they're used to protect an actual copywritten work (in this case the encrypted game images).

Doesn't this use case fall squarely in the realm of the exception for the purposes of interoperability?
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