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Henry Kissinger Has Died

nytimes.com

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Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#81

Post by [deleted] »

anigbrowl wrote: post #60
cocacola1 wrote: post #15

I can understand why people despise Kissinger, but he’s a pretty interesting figure on the whole. Not the best diplomat or Secretary of State we’ve had, but certainly a seminal figure in American foreign policy.

Certainly, but lots of terrible people are also interesting. Kissinger strikes me as a prime example of Lord Acton's dictum at how power corrupts; by any reasonable standard he committed absolutely egregious acts, but because they inured to the USA's strategic benefit, there has never been any political will to hold him accountable. It's like how the US promotes the idea of a 'rules based international order' but hab…

[deleted]

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#83

Post by romanhn »

digdugdirk wrote: post #18

Are we sure? I was beginning to wonder if the afterlife was going to be holding out on this one. Poor taste jokes aside - is there anyone else as directly responsible for as much modern day suffering, who has "gotten away with it" more cleanly in the eyes of the public? I've always found the disconnect between history and legacy to be rather... jarring.

Depends on perspective I suppose. Lots of people in Russia, for instance, feel this way about Gorbachev. Putin even denied him a state funeral.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#85

Post by whatshisface »

emchammer wrote: post #75
mjfl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Jews are often accused of dual loyalty. Kissinger would have been livid at the suggestion that he placed Jewish interests above the American national interest.

"Placing Jewish interests above American national interests" is a contradictory accusation, there are just as many Jewish people in the United States as there are anywhere else. Showing preference for a foreign country he has been engaged in diplomacy with is an accusation that has dogged much of Kissinger's career, including a lot of criticism for being soft on the Soviets due to how nicely their diplomats treated him. Peace with the soviet union was probably not against US interests as his neoconservative critics of the time would have claimed, and Israel has done a lot at the behest of the united states - so maybe they are both wrong, but it is not necessarily an antisemitic accusation. Of course some people will think Kissinger was soft on Israel, he existed at one point on the spectrum of policy and he was not at an extreme.

P.S. If you want to hear my opinion, it's that ascribing to Kissinger the overall direction of our government's foreign policy is usually not the right answer, given that he was always surrounded by many others who agreed with him. You don't get to be a well-liked figure in Washington by acting like a disagreeable outsider slash maverick...

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#86

Post by buildbot »

breput wrote: post #6

Do yourself a favor and listen to at least one of the six part series that Behind The Bastards podcast[0] did on Kissinger. It will give you a background, with sources, on the "controversial" statesman that you'll read eulogies about over the next few days. [0] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-one-kissinger [1] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-two-kissinger [2] https://omny.fm/shows/behind…

Yes seriously - there’s a strong argument the Kissinger committed actual treason several times. He’s responsible for the deaths (hundreds?) of thousands.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#88

Post by HeWhoLurksLate »

photochemsyn wrote: post #54

If you really want to understand the Kissenger era, the best raw source IMO is this: > "The Oil Kings: How the U.S., Iran, and Saudi Arabia Changed the Balance of Power in the Middle East is a 2011 book by Andrew Scott Cooper" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oil_Kings > "The book discusses Henry Kissinger, the 1970s oil embargo, and the Iranian Revolution. Cooper had stated that the story on how the U.S. became dep…

> If you read Machiavelli's "the prince" you'll know everything you need to know about Kissenger. Never had an original idea in his whole life.

I mean Steve Jobs didn't do a lot of invention either, but he was still quite the character and bent the course of history

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#90

Post by Quekid5 »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #12
arp242 wrote: post #5

I'm surprised at the extreme brevity of this obituary; were they taken by surprise someone could die of old age as young as 100 and didn't have anything prepared? I would have expected at least an brief summary of his career, highlights, major points of controversy, etc. e.g. like this: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/29/henry-kissin... (and undoubtedly many others). Also, this ruins my "Jimmy Carter v.…

> were they taken by surprise someone could die of old age as young as 100...? I doubt it. The economy of Henry Kissinger Grim Reaper claw machine memes has been going strong for the last four years at least.

Four years? The Venture Brothers had a "Dr Killinger" character with his 'Magic Murder Bag' about 15-ish years ago. Kissinger's crimes have been known about for a loooong time... but the establishment didn't seem to care.

EDIT: Apologies if you meant "forty" years. That'd be about right for mainstream.

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