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Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

thedrive.com

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Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#81

Post by oxfordmale »

audunw wrote: post #7

It’s great to bring this problem up. But the focus on EVs is a distraction. > EVs tend to shed around 20 percent more from their tires due to their higher weight and high torque compared to traditional internal combustion engine-powered vehicles. It’s covered in this panel discussion on Fully Charged: https://youtu.be/LeHakmL6eEc?si=ebBAn8RSDhmmLfHI Fleet operators don’t see any significant difference in tire wear. E…

For equivalent sized vehicles, EVs are heavier, simply because current generation batteries still do not match the energy density of fossil fuels.

There is even discussions to start using concrete for roads to handle the increased weight of EVs.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#82

Post by anlsh »

ilyt wrote: post #56
bedobi wrote: post #34

Typical hackernews to have threads full of well meaning but ultimately misguided people saying ah we have some technological solution for this. The solution to this problem and every other problem caused by driving is not driving . Period. Not driving doesn't require any new technology, it just requires getting serious about alternatives to driving. (safe, separated bike ways, ebike and micromobility subsidies, rail,…

And that still solves not all that much because you still have to feed the city by fleet of trucks, and still need to have a fleet of vans to deliver all of that to the stores you now walk or cycle to.

Not much? Do you drive? Do you see the number of consumer vehicles on the road versus the number of trucks/delivery vehicles? If we could work towards a huge reduction in consumer vehicles on the road, even if we just replaced them all with busses, that'd be a huge improvement in gas consumption, traffic, (sub)urban sprawl, and more.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#83

Post by lazide »

undersuit wrote: post #69
jayd16 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't mind walking to the store now and then but usually I make fewer trips for more than I could carry.

So you're going to drive a multi-ton vehicle instead of bringing a folding cart?

When it’s easier and (value of time) cheaper, why not?

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#85

Post by djaychela »

oxfordmale wrote: post #81
audunw wrote: post #7

It’s great to bring this problem up. But the focus on EVs is a distraction. > EVs tend to shed around 20 percent more from their tires due to their higher weight and high torque compared to traditional internal combustion engine-powered vehicles. It’s covered in this panel discussion on Fully Charged: https://youtu.be/LeHakmL6eEc?si=ebBAn8RSDhmmLfHI Fleet operators don’t see any significant difference in tire wear. E…

For equivalent sized vehicles, EVs are heavier, simply because current generation batteries still do not match the energy density of fossil fuels. There is even discussions to start using concrete for roads to handle the increased weight of EVs.

A kia Nero EV is ~200kg heavier than the ice version. That's equivalent to two passengers. The weight delta of large vehicles is far more of an issue than drive train differences.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#86

Post by gcanyon »

The obvious solution is to switch from plastic back to paper tires. /s

But seriously, I think EVs help with lower brake emissions, since regeneration is a different process. The issue with tires is at least partially a choice: drive like a normal person and you don’t have to emit (much — there’s still the extra weight) more tire bits.

I wonder if it’s possible to design tires from materials that will biodegrade in the ocean/environment, or at least sink?

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#87

Post by djaychela »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #27
audunw wrote: post #7

It’s great to bring this problem up. But the focus on EVs is a distraction. > EVs tend to shed around 20 percent more from their tires due to their higher weight and high torque compared to traditional internal combustion engine-powered vehicles. It’s covered in this panel discussion on Fully Charged: https://youtu.be/LeHakmL6eEc?si=ebBAn8RSDhmmLfHI Fleet operators don’t see any significant difference in tire wear. E…

The important point is there are far greener alternatives than EV's. EV's cost a lot of resources to build, which means a lot of environmental destruction and carbon output. Plus as we see they still contribute to this tyre dust problem. They are not the holy grail. Rail, public transport, e-bikes and better city design is.

This argument about EV resource use for construction is fossil fuel industry FUD. The difference is outweighed within a year or two of driving versus an ICE vehicle.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#88

Post by danny_codes »

audunw wrote: post #7

It’s great to bring this problem up. But the focus on EVs is a distraction. > EVs tend to shed around 20 percent more from their tires due to their higher weight and high torque compared to traditional internal combustion engine-powered vehicles. It’s covered in this panel discussion on Fully Charged: https://youtu.be/LeHakmL6eEc?si=ebBAn8RSDhmmLfHI Fleet operators don’t see any significant difference in tire wear. E…

Exactly. Designing transit systems around cars was a colossal mistake. Now that the data are clear, it's time to rebuild. Over the next few decades, we need to tear down existing car infrastructure and replace it with walking/biking/transit.

A side benefit (aside from the particulate pollution, energy waste, noise pollution, high death toll, increased inter-destination distance, decreased QOL) is that it'll be like an order of magnitude cheaper. Cars are a rather expensive way to get around. The Netherlands actually considers biking to be +17cents per mile (as in, considered revenue), because of reduced healthcare costs.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#89

Post by anlsh »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #46
bedobi wrote: post #34

Typical hackernews to have threads full of well meaning but ultimately misguided people saying ah we have some technological solution for this. The solution to this problem and every other problem caused by driving is not driving . Period. Not driving doesn't require any new technology, it just requires getting serious about alternatives to driving. (safe, separated bike ways, ebike and micromobility subsidies, rail,…

In other words: you're proposing to replace a set of possible, if difficult, technological solutions, with an near-impossible social solution. I'd call that misguided. Technological solutions tend to be discussed because they can be implemented. Social solutions may work better, but only in imaginary la-la land where they can actually be put into practice. In the real world, you can't " just " get people to not drive…

Hah! Cars have been around for just a hundred years or so, and yet serious efforts to reduce our dependency on them are "near impossible." Talk about recency bias.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#90

Post by danny_codes »

demondemidi wrote: post #74
audunw wrote: post #7

It’s great to bring this problem up. But the focus on EVs is a distraction. > EVs tend to shed around 20 percent more from their tires due to their higher weight and high torque compared to traditional internal combustion engine-powered vehicles. It’s covered in this panel discussion on Fully Charged: https://youtu.be/LeHakmL6eEc?si=ebBAn8RSDhmmLfHI Fleet operators don’t see any significant difference in tire wear. E…

> What we need to focus on is infrastructure for walking, biking and public transportation And busses, light rail, intercity trains. But America associates one-car-per-person with all kinds of twisted politics and self-esteem anxiety. We need a psyops program to wean people off cars, and it will take a decade or more. Just look at the anger in any HN thread that is critical of cars, it runs deep.

> We need a psyops program to wean people off cars, and it will take a decade or more. Just look at the anger in any HN thread that is critical of cars, it runs deep.

That 10 billion of car ad spend per year adds up.

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