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You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

theregister.co.uk

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Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#81

Post by mgkimsal »

patio11 wrote: post #49

I wish I had written this. If the humor/cynicism gets to you please power through and look at the actionable tips which will earn you more money . There is approximately no-one on HN, not even at the best managed firms with the least BS imaginable, who would not experience positive ROI from "Congrats guys, we just shipped X, let's have a celebratory dinner at $FAVORITE and I'm buying." That idea is freaking genius .…

Possibly a bit OT:

Larger events can be harder to coordinate, but I've often used food in various ways at work. Usually, bringing in a cake or something like that to celebrate something, and often something small ("hey, the build server works!" or "hey, 3 people had a birthday in December!")

It can certainly be overdone, but can also make you memorable to people. I brought cookies and milk (for up to, say, 6 people) to a job interview 7 years ago. The day I did, it happened to be the company owner's birthday, which was quite a coincidence. The owner called me up a few weeks ago asking if I was available for some work.

He remembered me all those years later because of the $7 I spent before a job interview. Not because of the paper my resume was on, or how cleverly it was worded, or the color of the tie I wore, or what I drove, or what my code looked like, or how I used vim instead of emacs, or what certifications I had, or what color my hair was.

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#82

Post by DanBC »

mgkimsal wrote: post #81
patio11 wrote: post #49

I wish I had written this. If the humor/cynicism gets to you please power through and look at the actionable tips which will earn you more money . There is approximately no-one on HN, not even at the best managed firms with the least BS imaginable, who would not experience positive ROI from "Congrats guys, we just shipped X, let's have a celebratory dinner at $FAVORITE and I'm buying." That idea is freaking genius .…

Possibly a bit OT: Larger events can be harder to coordinate, but I've often used food in various ways at work. Usually, bringing in a cake or something like that to celebrate something, and often something small ("hey, the build server works!" or "hey, 3 people had a birthday in December!") It can certainly be overdone, but can also make you memorable to people. I brought cookies and milk (for up to, say, 6 people)…

An elegant example of just how broken some interview / hiring practices are.

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#83

Post by jameshart »

mopoke wrote: post #46
crasshopper wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that any developer who is curious about the larger reasons their paycheck arrives in the mail can & should learn how their business works. But so many management skills -- empathy, listening, communicating clearly/fairly, inspiring people, making people feel valued -- are orthogonal to programming knowledge/skill.

Do you think? I'm not sure. Speaking as a developer who is now a manager, they're certainly not skills that came naturally but I think I have learned them and practice them fairly well. Maybe I'll never be the natural that some people are but, with hard work and forcing myself out of my comfort zone, I am doing a good enough job.

"orthogonal" just means "uncorrelated" - not "inversely correlated". Your OP isn't saying those skills are automatically absent in people who code, but rather that ability to code has no bearing on your ability to manage - and vice versa.

Not saying I agree with the OP on that front.

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#84

Post by orblivion »

hef19898 wrote: post #53
kiba wrote: post #2

Very cynical view. If this is what's happening across companies, than the market system wasn't efficient enough or was impeded to make a change. We all know that the local cable or telephone companies aren't trying their damn hardest and we are not pleased with the services we're getting. However, we can't do anything about it. To me, it's incomprehensible that we can sit on our hand and not make things better. Inste…

No, not cynical only realistic and maybe a little bit sarcastic. The whole system is oscilating towards mediocracy (if such a word doesn't exist, I already apology for my English), and it seems a lot of companies, espacialy the big ones, have reached a point where the only choice left is either playing the game or try to get things done. The latter won't work. Regarding the pie picture, people care too much about the…

> mediocracy

Just FYI, the word you're looking for is "mediocrity"

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#85

Post by mgkimsal »

DanBC wrote: post #82
mgkimsal wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly a bit OT: Larger events can be harder to coordinate, but I've often used food in various ways at work. Usually, bringing in a cake or something like that to celebrate something, and often something small ("hey, the build server works!" or "hey, 3 people had a birthday in December!") It can certainly be overdone, but can also make you memorable to people. I brought cookies and milk (for up to, say, 6 people)…

An elegant example of just how broken some interview / hiring practices are.

Broken in what sense? That "programming ability" is not the only criteria selected for?

In this case, and in most interview cases, there's already been some vetting done via resume/portfolio/phone, and face to face interviews are as much about personality and team fit as they are about technical competence. Being able to demonstrate that you can think about others socially, include them in to a small ritual, and do it in a way that's memorable without coming across as too cheesy (I don't think I did) is... dare I say, a skill.

I've definitely been on the interviewer side of the table, and if someone had brought in some cookies to munch on, it would bode well. If that's the only thing they do, and they still suck during the interview, no job.

I'd done this a few times over the years, and in a couple cases never even got a followup call back. If it was because of the cookies/cake/snacks/whatever, then I'm glad I don't work at a place that's so uptight/rigid that they can't take some fun.

FWIW, I didn't take a job after that interview, but was offered one.

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#86

Post by MicahWedemeyer »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #65
kamaal wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, Blow your trumpet and blow it louder. That always helps. Your accomplishments are nothing until you successfully explain it to others and let them know you did it. Keeping things to yourself and telling no one appreciates your genius never works.

The problem is getting people to understand the accomplishment especially if you have to do some heroic hack to get something mundane but important to work. Like this xkcd http://xkcd.com/664/

The cynic would say: Why were you working on a mundane problem? That's for some other nameless jr. dev to fix while you focus on the high-profile-yet-easy stuff.

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#88

Post by skrebbel »

krschultz wrote: post #79
skrebbel wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: how is sucking up to your bosses by giving them treats "trying to improve things"? Note, not trying to be cynical here. Maybe I'm so ingrained with this culture you describe that I can't see your point.

When you phrase it that way, of course it sounds useless. Have you ever gone out to a bar and bought a round of drinks for your friends? Yes, that's like $90 a round for 10 people in a New York bar. But I bet you got a drink back from every one of those people some day (and if you didn't, they're not great friends or you make a lot more money than them). It's kind of the same principle here. It doesn't have to be a s…

Patrick said "Buy your team dinner". That's what I was referring to. Buying a round of drinks is a very different thing, IMO. It's perfectly natural and social behaviour in many cultures.

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#89

Post by mhurron »

mgkimsal wrote: post #85
DanBC wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An elegant example of just how broken some interview / hiring practices are.

Broken in what sense? That "programming ability" is not the only criteria selected for? In this case, and in most interview cases, there's already been some vetting done via resume/portfolio/phone, and face to face interviews are as much about personality and team fit as they are about technical competence. Being able to demonstrate that you can think about others socially, include them in to a small ritual, and do i…

By your own words you were called not because any ability of yours stood out, but because you did the right thing to suck up on the right day.

That makes it a good example of how little skill and ability mean in the interview process. That's broken; say the right thing or do the right thing and you're in.

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#90

Post by mgkimsal »

mhurron wrote: post #89
mgkimsal wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broken in what sense? That "programming ability" is not the only criteria selected for? In this case, and in most interview cases, there's already been some vetting done via resume/portfolio/phone, and face to face interviews are as much about personality and team fit as they are about technical competence. Being able to demonstrate that you can think about others socially, include them in to a small ritual, and do i…

By your own words you were called not because any ability of yours stood out, but because you did the right thing to suck up on the right day. That makes it a good example of how little skill and ability mean in the interview process. That's broken; say the right thing or do the right thing and you're in.

"say the right thing or do the right thing and you're in".

Knowing what those are and how to do this is, by most measures, a good skill to have.

"you were called not because any ability of yours stood out, but because you did the right thing to suck up on the right day".

In that case, the birthday thing was a total fluke, and not really that big a deal, more a happy coincidence. But as I mentioned before, I wouldn't have had an interview in the first place without a baseline of skill/ability already demonstrated through other means (online portfolio, resume, phone screen process). The ability to make a positive memorable impression is, imo, an ability that did stand out.

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