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You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

theregister.co.uk

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Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#41

Post by kirillzubovsky »

A bit one-sided argument, but might be very common in some large companies. Indeed, if you're in the situation described in the article, the best bet is to play the game, knowing the constraints, and to do the least work for the most bang.

If you actually want to enjoy your work, having a chance to create something new/different/efficient, in the environment where your "boss" is your peer, and your boss understand the value of 50% performance increase and is willing to spend time to understand why your backend is better than other's backend, then pick a startup.

I am not just saying pick my startup, no, pick any startup that fits you. There are so many companies out there, if you search hard enough you can find the product / team that interests you, and people you're willing to work with. That said, be prepared to work hard, to have to fix bugs on the weekends, to probably carry your laptop everywhere you go, and finally, to have a lower salary than before.

It's pretty simple, imho, you can't have everything all at once, but you can pick the combination that is right for you. All you need is to do it. Do or do not, there's no try. ;)

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#43

Post by mopoke »

parfe wrote: post #39
mopoke wrote: post #22

Bear in mind that this from The Register whose audience is much more skewed towards those working in large corporates, BOFHs and PFYs than the typical audience here. For me the key sentence to the whole article is "Your boss has no idea if you’re good at your job." Why do we do such a bad job of developing people who are good managers/leaders AND understand technology? There seems to be this idea that IT folks are "s…

>Why do we do such a bad job of developing people who are good managers/leaders AND understand technology? From my experience I think the issue stems for looking at management as the next rung on a ladder. A good developer might never gain or want the experience needed to make her a good manager. A manager might never learn what it takes to be a developer. But the idea of moving up to management ignores the real issu…

But there's no reason a good developer can't be a good manager. They may not have the skills in their current role, but everyone should be able to acquire those skills.

I see no problem with developers becoming managers in theory. But something goes wrong in that transition. Management skills are just like learning any other skill. Skill-learning is something that developers (or the good ones) typically excel at. So why can't developers learn management skills?

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#44

Post by crasshopper »

mopoke wrote: post #43
parfe wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why do we do such a bad job of developing people who are good managers/leaders AND understand technology? From my experience I think the issue stems for looking at management as the next rung on a ladder. A good developer might never gain or want the experience needed to make her a good manager. A manager might never learn what it takes to be a developer. But the idea of moving up to management ignores the real issu…

But there's no reason a good developer can't be a good manager. They may not have the skills in their current role, but everyone should be able to acquire those skills. I see no problem with developers becoming managers in theory. But something goes wrong in that transition. Management skills are just like learning any other skill. Skill-learning is something that developers (or the good ones) typically excel at. So…

I agree with you that any developer who is curious about the larger reasons their paycheck arrives in the mail can & should learn how their business works.

But so many management skills -- empathy, listening, communicating clearly/fairly, inspiring people, making people feel valued -- are orthogonal to programming knowledge/skill.

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#45

Post by dingfeng_quek »

jrockway wrote: post #20

This is sarcasm, right? All of these things are clear warnings that it's time to flee that company for your life. You get paid what you get paid because someone else is willing to pay you more. The market is competitive and you're being hired by your peers, who recognize the value of "making the backup 50% faster". If you wear a tie and are trying to become a Managing Director at Merrill Lynch, then yes, you need to…

No. This is non-fiction in finance. "Dominic Connor is a City headhunter at QF Search with a sideline in teaching C++ to bankers", he's also a well-known and respectable enough online personality.

Such evidence also provides a basis for many explanations (appealing to the financial products being to complex) of the 2008 global financial crisis.

I've once played with the idea of a career in quantitative finance, but subsequently fled for my life. Yet, attesting to the wonders of biodiversity, many kinds of life have evolved to thrive in the harshest of conditions.

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#46

Post by mopoke »

crasshopper wrote: post #44
mopoke wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there's no reason a good developer can't be a good manager. They may not have the skills in their current role, but everyone should be able to acquire those skills. I see no problem with developers becoming managers in theory. But something goes wrong in that transition. Management skills are just like learning any other skill. Skill-learning is something that developers (or the good ones) typically excel at. So…

I agree with you that any developer who is curious about the larger reasons their paycheck arrives in the mail can & should learn how their business works. But so many management skills -- empathy, listening, communicating clearly/fairly, inspiring people, making people feel valued -- are orthogonal to programming knowledge/skill.

Do you think? I'm not sure. Speaking as a developer who is now a manager, they're certainly not skills that came naturally but I think I have learned them and practice them fairly well.

Maybe I'll never be the natural that some people are but, with hard work and forcing myself out of my comfort zone, I am doing a good enough job.

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#48

Post by salemh »

pagekalisedown wrote: post #35
protomyth wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't quite true. A lot of recruiters that I've met get paid based on the salary of the recruited, so fewer people at higher salary might make the recruiter more money.

It doesn't usually make up the difference.

salary fee % n fee total 65000 0.2 3 39000 80000 0.2 2 32000 90000 0.2 1 18000 120000 0.2 1 24000

Simplistic EG (and a 2x 80,000 vs 120,000 is realistic), but, like a real estate agent, the cost of NOT closing the sale is greater then pushing for a marginal increase in the sale.

EG salary, pushing for 115,000 vs 105,000 the difference in fee on 20% is 2,000. Which is ~200-400 dollars difference in commission. Losing the offer for pushing for 115,000? 2,300~4,600 (10-20% of fee).

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#49

Post by patio11 »

I wish I had written this. If the humor/cynicism gets to you please power through and look at the actionable tips which will earn you more money.

There is approximately no-one on HN, not even at the best managed firms with the least BS imaginable, who would not experience positive ROI from "Congrats guys, we just shipped X, let's have a celebratory dinner at $FAVORITE and I'm buying." That idea is freaking genius. It gets you instant political capital and will make sure decisionmakers actually remember X the next time it rolls around because they'll have a hundred projects to worry about but only one or two which were so important they had celebratory dinners at completion.

Re: You're crap and paid too much for the little work you actually do

#50

Post by pagekalisedown »

salemh wrote: post #48
pagekalisedown wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't usually make up the difference.

salary fee % n fee total 65000 0.2 3 39000 80000 0.2 2 32000 90000 0.2 1 18000 120000 0.2 1 24000 Simplistic EG (and a 2x 80,000 vs 120,000 is realistic), but, like a real estate agent, the cost of NOT closing the sale is greater then pushing for a marginal increase in the sale. EG salary, pushing for 115,000 vs 105,000 the difference in fee on 20% is 2,000. Which is ~200-400 dollars difference in commission. Losing…

Prefix a line with double spaces preserves the formatting:

  salary fee  %  n fee total
       65000 0.2 3 39000
       80000 0.2 2 32000
       90000 0.2 1 18000
      120000 0.2 1 24000
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