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Worldcoin: A solution in search of its problem

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Re: Worldcoin: A solution in search of its problem

#81

Post by AnthonyMouse »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #69
wmf wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice to have both.

Both already exist. Setting up a direct debit generally only involves filling in a form. Sending money to someone else is as simple as authorising a payment to them with their account details. What problem needs to be solved?

What's needed is a better system for approving who is allowed to make withdrawals from your bank account instead of just "anyone in possession of your bank routing information" which makes customers reluctant to provide it.

This would be essentially solved with a standardized system for customers to give each merchant a separate bank account number (or equivalent) which really refers to the same bank account but could be revoked individually if that number is compromised or you want to remove the merchant's access, or could be set to automatically expire for non-recurring payments. But the banks don't have the incentive to provide this when they're the ones getting the credit card fees.

Re: Worldcoin: A solution in search of its problem

#82

Post by treyd »

wmf wrote: post #62
kgeist wrote: post #17

>there is no “password reset” when it comes to iris data This is the most critical part, I think. If my Iris scan is leaked (which is not hard to do, from modified Orbs, similar to credit card skimmers, to mobsters scanning people's irises under threat of death), my identity will be stolen and I can't do anything about it. Do they have at least some sort of 2FA?

I think their plan is that if you re-scan your eyes the system revokes any previous (sold/stolen) identities associated with your eyes and issues you a new one, like a password reset process. This doesn't help if someone can use a leaked hash to trigger the reset process though.

Is there any reasonable way to make this work that doesn't involve the company keeping plaintext copies of Iris scans and/or retaining the ability to arbitrarily reset account keys on the ledger (such that users have to trust them to behave honestly)? What happens if a modified Orb is used to dumo the scans and then later trigger a fake reset?

Re: Worldcoin: A solution in search of its problem

#83

Post by AnthonyMouse »

01acheru wrote: post #38
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the UK, I transfer money to my friends instantaneously and for free using just my bank account. You can do the same thing in the US. The problem is that businesses can't easily do this without collecting bank routing information from customers, which is effectively "secret" because it allows anyone to debit money directly from their bank account, so they're reluctant to provide it. What's needed is a low- or no-…

I don't know how it works outside of Italy but here we can make instantaneous bank transfers for free or a really small (and capped fee) to anyone just knowing their bank account without leaking any secret information. How does it work in the US?

You go to your bank's website and input the other person's bank routing information to make a transfer.

But with the same information someone can also make a withdrawal, which is problematic.

Re: Worldcoin: A solution in search of its problem

#84

Post by _9omd »

panarky wrote: post #78
_9omd wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine how naive you have to be to not see account selling as a massive problem. Especially when your plan is to first onboard users in poor countries. Why would these people do anything other than signup and immediately sell their accounts, for what may amount to a month or two of normal pay, just for waiting in line and getting scanned. I find it crazy that they claimed their system is Sybil resistant when…

> sweet sweet VC money Sure, yeah, maybe that's all it is, a scam that's totally transparent and obvious to every random internet commenter but totally non-obvious to the simple and gullible marks on Sand Hill Road. Or maybe, just possibly, there might be more to it. Perhaps it takes a little more effort to understand than just piling on to the reflexive groupthink cynicism which passes for conventional wisdom around…

I’m not saying it’s a scam, just that it seems their system isn’t really Sybil resistant due to the issue of account selling. And if that’s the case they either didn’t think this would be an issue, or they expected it but don’t really care, and the claim of Sybil resistance is just marketing. Is this wrong in some way you’d like to explain?

Re: Worldcoin: A solution in search of its problem

#85

Post by wmf »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #69
wmf wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice to have both.

Both already exist. Setting up a direct debit generally only involves filling in a form. Sending money to someone else is as simple as authorising a payment to them with their account details. What problem needs to be solved?

You can't really use ACH or Zelle for retail payments. It's not worth doing the setup for a one-time payment.

Re: Worldcoin: A solution in search of its problem

#86

Post by treyd »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #31
nmat wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds how US centric a lot of crypto companies are. An advantage of crypto that often comes up is “instant and cheap money transfers”. In the UK, I transfer money to my friends instantaneously and for free using just my bank account.

> In the UK, I transfer money to my friends instantaneously and for free using just my bank account. You can do the same thing in the US. The problem is that businesses can't easily do this without collecting bank routing information from customers, which is effectively "secret" because it allows anyone to debit money directly from their bank account, so they're reluctant to provide it. What's needed is a low- or no-…

> What's needed is a low- or no-fee system for requesting payments from someone without collecting any secrets from them.

Supposedly FedNow is the solution to this, but it will be a while before this functionality is exposed to end users.

Re: Worldcoin: A solution in search of its problem

#87

Post by AlexandrB »

panarky wrote: post #78
_9omd wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine how naive you have to be to not see account selling as a massive problem. Especially when your plan is to first onboard users in poor countries. Why would these people do anything other than signup and immediately sell their accounts, for what may amount to a month or two of normal pay, just for waiting in line and getting scanned. I find it crazy that they claimed their system is Sybil resistant when…

> sweet sweet VC money Sure, yeah, maybe that's all it is, a scam that's totally transparent and obvious to every random internet commenter but totally non-obvious to the simple and gullible marks on Sand Hill Road. Or maybe, just possibly, there might be more to it. Perhaps it takes a little more effort to understand than just piling on to the reflexive groupthink cynicism which passes for conventional wisdom around…

> Sure, yeah, maybe that's all it is, a scam that's totally transparent and obvious to every random internet commenter but totally non-obvious to the simple and gullible marks on Sand Hill Road.

You write this like it's an absurd notion, but we've already been through Juicero, WeWork, Theranos, Nikola, and FTX among others.

Re: Worldcoin: A solution in search of its problem

#88

Post by happytiger »

This is the most dystopian project I’ve ever seen and a total wolf in sheep’s clothing. Hell it might better called a wolf in wolf’s clothing.

I find it difficult that this kind of project is attached to Altman — it’s not a good look for someone playing around with controversial human replacement technologies capable of insane global control and manipulation.

Let’s invent a crypto that tracks every human on the planet using their immutable characteristics.

It’ll be fine. What can go wrong? This information won’t be used inappropriately I’m sure.

Never trust a rich person who wraps themselves in the cloak of human interest or says they are “of the people.” The establishment isn’t in the business of teaching you to disrupt it.

Re: Worldcoin: A solution in search of its problem

#90

Post by [deleted] »

panarky wrote: post #70
lolinder wrote: post #9

> While Worldcoin may have developed an algorithm that reliably distinguishes unique irises among its test pool, it’s not clear that it will work with a pool orders of magnitude larger. This is a really key problem. The main application of biometrics today is in cell phones, and for those we operate on the assumption that we're trying to distinguish between the authorized user and a quite small pool of non-authorized…

If the iris hash function produces a false negative, does the owner of the iris lose access to their assets?

[deleted]
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