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It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

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Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#81

Post by quacked »

civilitty wrote: post #64
mobilefriendly wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family member died from his addiction and I'm still angry at him. He made several decades of selfish, disastrous choices. He had every advantage in the world and squandered it all. I'm angry we don't do more to fight these drugs. Drug dealing is very much a violent crime, it killed my cousin. The popular culture that celebrates drugs and dealers. Plenty of blame all around but central is the person who decides to…

> The popular culture that celebrates drugs and dealers. You mean modern medicine? That's what makes this problem so pernicious - so much of it was created by the people fictionalized in shows like House MD and Grey's Anatomy not The Wire and Breaking Bad.

Obviously he doesn't mean that, there's an enormous body of media and art that glamorizes drug dealing and using. It stretches across ethnicity and class. It begins with alcohol and weed, stretches into cocaine and hallucinogens, and from there gets into the heavy drugs.

If the only input into drug addiction was the modern medical industry over-prescribing opioids, the landscape of modern drug use would look very different.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#82

Post by mordae »

reliablereason wrote: post #51

You have to use a very strange definition of "cause" for the articles title to be true. If there was no chemical the addiction to the chemical would not be there. It is obvious. The existence of the chemical is part of a hugely complicated causal tree that leads to addiction. The argument laid out in the article is a false dichotomy, which is denying one part of the causal tree(the existence of the drug) by pointing…

> If there was no chemical the addiction to the chemical would not be there. It is obvious.

From my experience, users would find another way to compensate. Maybe gambling. Maybe self harm. Maybe hurting others.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#84

Post by daseiner1 »

generalizations wrote: post #73
version_five wrote: post #72

Just want to mention my experience quitting smoking (which is notably hard, but I have no point of reference having not used other drugs). Physical addition is easy. With nicotine there are not really strong symptoms anyway, irritability mainly and inability to focus. I know other drugs are worse but in principle, battling withdrawl is not that tough, people are good at physical hardships. For nicotine it's a few day…

> because you know that something that has an effect you enjoy immensely > And if you slip you're back on the thick of things - like why alcoholics can't have a social drink. I know someone who prescribes naltrexone for alcohol addiction, which has the specific purpose of blocking the positive effect of the alcohol. So you can have the drink, and you won't enjoy it, and it's easier to live with.

The Sinclair Method does have impressive results, and I've have some success with it in the past.

For alcoholics at a certain level (thinking of myself here – yes, anecdotal), there is the necessary accountability to take the naltrexone tablet and "deprive" one of the euphoria, which can be difficult to maintain over a long period of time.

With Vivitrol (an injectable form of Naltrexone that lasts ~1 month per injection), it is not difficult to simply "drink through it". Results in an absolute horrible hangover – sure – but that's not necessarily enough to stop the motivated alcoholic.

Overall though, MAT is a valuable tool in the toolbox.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#85

Post by civilitty »

quacked wrote: post #81
civilitty wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The popular culture that celebrates drugs and dealers. You mean modern medicine? That's what makes this problem so pernicious - so much of it was created by the people fictionalized in shows like House MD and Grey's Anatomy not The Wire and Breaking Bad.

Obviously he doesn't mean that, there's an enormous body of media and art that glamorizes drug dealing and using. It stretches across ethnicity and class. It begins with alcohol and weed, stretches into cocaine and hallucinogens, and from there gets into the heavy drugs. If the only input into drug addiction was the modern medical industry over-prescribing opioids, the landscape of modern drug use would look very dif…

Does any recent media actually glorify the drugs that are causing the worst problems right now? I watch a lot of TV but have less exposure to popular music so I'm genuinely unsure.

There's plenty of alcohol, weed, cocaine, and hallucinogens, I'll give you that, but they're not gateways to opioid addiction. Breaking Bad glorifying the manufacture and sale of meth is the only except I can think of - Oxy, fentanyl, and p2p meth aren't exactly the drugs musicians and Hollywood turn to as a lyrical/plot device.

There's also a fine line between glorifying and entertaining. I struggle to find any such glorification in shows like Snowfall, for example, which mostly shows the very negative impacts of crack cocaine in cities. There's only a single character in the entire run that manages to overcome the drug and the main character is a tragic anti-hero at best.

Any time heroin or another opioid comes up in pop culture it's almost always in the context of horrifying drug dens.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#86

Post by benatkin »

quacked wrote: post #81
civilitty wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The popular culture that celebrates drugs and dealers. You mean modern medicine? That's what makes this problem so pernicious - so much of it was created by the people fictionalized in shows like House MD and Grey's Anatomy not The Wire and Breaking Bad.

Obviously he doesn't mean that, there's an enormous body of media and art that glamorizes drug dealing and using. It stretches across ethnicity and class. It begins with alcohol and weed, stretches into cocaine and hallucinogens, and from there gets into the heavy drugs. If the only input into drug addiction was the modern medical industry over-prescribing opioids, the landscape of modern drug use would look very dif…

If you want to see a sincere take on it, read the writings of Thich Nhat Hanh.

https://www.lionsroar.com/food-for-thought/#:~:text=I%20hear...

I still tend to disagree because I have a hard time finding balance and not going too far in restricting the media I consume, but it's a nice vision.

A lot of the religious right in the US, especially the part that is led by televangelists like the late Pat Robertson, just wants to suppress it out of ignorance and they have no plan except to throw more and more people in jail, creating more X to prison pipelines.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#87

Post by brightball »

mobilefriendly wrote: post #58
xrd wrote: post #13

I've got a friend who recently was hospitalized for fentanyl addiction. Twenty years ago he was my first investor in my first startup. He was the guy that taught me about mediation. He was the first vegetarian I knew. He owned four cab licenses in Portland. Then Uber came in and shredded his retirement plan. The cab company forced him out so he wouldn't even capitalize on the partial ownership of the land they owned.…

My family member died from his addiction and I'm still angry at him. He made several decades of selfish, disastrous choices. He had every advantage in the world and squandered it all. I'm angry we don't do more to fight these drugs. Drug dealing is very much a violent crime, it killed my cousin. The popular culture that celebrates drugs and dealers. Plenty of blame all around but central is the person who decides to…

There are a growing number of people who think that drug dealers should be charged with murder in these circumstances.

It’s difficult to argue with the logic. The worse the problem gets, the more it seems like correct path.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#88

Post by 8note »

standardUser wrote: post #70
stan_kirdey wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we should not treat drug addiction as a crime" - I don't think anyone is saying otherwise

Everyone is saying that, unless you think drugs materialize out of thin air? Because in reality, a drug user, drug seller and drug producer are all part of the exact same system, completely inseparable and entirely co-dependent on one another. Any differentiation we make is a fantasy we have devised to make ourselves feel better, like we're going after the "real" criminal, not the poor victim/user. The only way to st…

Decriminalization is the thing you're looking for -- making people free to sell whatever drugs they want, rather than something like legalizing, which keeps the black markets intact

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#89

Post by daseiner1 »

bionhoward wrote: post #83

If not for the drug, you cannot be addicted to the drug. QED drugs “cause” addiction.

Necessary but not sufficient.

If not for alcohol, there would be no alcoholics but the vast majority of drinkers are not alcoholics.

Drug + ?? ==> Addiction

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#90

Post by civilitty »

brightball wrote: post #87
mobilefriendly wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family member died from his addiction and I'm still angry at him. He made several decades of selfish, disastrous choices. He had every advantage in the world and squandered it all. I'm angry we don't do more to fight these drugs. Drug dealing is very much a violent crime, it killed my cousin. The popular culture that celebrates drugs and dealers. Plenty of blame all around but central is the person who decides to…

There are a growing number of people who think that drug dealers should be charged with murder in these circumstances. It’s difficult to argue with the logic. The worse the problem gets, the more it seems like correct path.

Dealers who sell drugs laced with Fentanyl are increasingly facing manslaughter charges (homicide has a higher premeditation bar to clear)
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