Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

SoftBank Vision funds post record $39B annual loss

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 149 posts

Re: SoftBank Vision funds post record $39B annual loss

#81

Post by maerF0x0 »

crazygringo wrote: post #41
jjeaff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically an inefficient, but effective way to siphon money from the poor and middle class and deposit it into the bank accounts of the wealthy by utilizing the equity the poor and middle class have in their vehicles.

Nobody's forced to work for Uber. It's not "siphoning" money from anybody. Drivers are driving for it because it's the best job available -- often because of the flexibility that lets them do it around other scheduled commitments. Take that opportunity away and they become worse off, not better.

You're not directly wrong, but many who are against uber/softbank/capitalists would mix in an implicit assumption that the investor class use desperation as a tool to force short term beneficial actions despite long term consequences. You can make $100 today to afford an airbnb and a cheese burger, but you'll have lost money when the repair bill (or purchasing the next car) comes due.

Re: SoftBank Vision funds post record $39B annual loss

#82

Post by hn_throawlles »

johntiger1 wrote: post #52
jjeaff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically an inefficient, but effective way to siphon money from the poor and middle class and deposit it into the bank accounts of the wealthy by utilizing the equity the poor and middle class have in their vehicles.

No, it's a way I can get a safe and reliable ride anywhere in the world, without getting scammed by a local taxi (not just Uber, but Lyft, Ola, Bolt etc.)

> It's basically an inefficient, but effective way to siphon money from the poor and middle class and deposit it into the bank accounts of the wealthy by utilizing the equity the poor and middle class have in their vehicles.

if you're a thinking like a system, then yes,

> No, it's a way I can get a safe and reliable ride anywhere in the world, without getting scammed by a local taxi (not just Uber, but Lyft, Ola, Bolt etc.)

if you're thinking like a human individual, then yes.

I agree with you both and I told you why

Re: SoftBank Vision funds post record $39B annual loss

#83

Post by hn_throawlles »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #81
crazygringo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody's forced to work for Uber. It's not "siphoning" money from anybody. Drivers are driving for it because it's the best job available -- often because of the flexibility that lets them do it around other scheduled commitments. Take that opportunity away and they become worse off, not better.

You're not directly wrong, but many who are against uber/softbank/capitalists would mix in an implicit assumption that the investor class use desperation as a tool to force short term beneficial actions despite long term consequences. You can make $100 today to afford an airbnb and a cheese burger, but you'll have lost money when the repair bill (or purchasing the next car) comes due.

or if you wanna be a much blunter in saying this:

because this society NEEDS that there exists poor people, essentially people unable to refuse a shitty job.

Re: SoftBank Vision funds post record $39B annual loss

#84

Post by dylan604 »

codyb wrote: post #80
dylan604 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many years did Amazon show losses and were allowed to continue without being called a hobby mis-telling the world?

Amazon was doing stuff though? Like getting books delivered to people’s homes.

Uber is getting people from point A to point B just as advertised

Re: SoftBank Vision funds post record $39B annual loss

#85

Post by maerF0x0 »

Mistletoe wrote: post #75
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to siphon money from the poor and middle class and deposit it into the bank accounts of the wealthy by utilizing the equity the poor and middle class have in their vehicles What poor and middle class assets does SoftBank manage? (EDIT: Nvm. I misread “vehicle” as an investment vehicle.)

The poor and middle class don't have investments. Source: all my co-workers and girlfriend's relatives that meet me with blank stares when I ask if they are saving for their retirement or maxing the company match for the 401k. Not judging that- the reality is somewhere in between they can't afford to do much but stay alive due to inflation and housing costs out of control and that they need to stop getting $7 Dutch B…

This is one thing that terrifies me. I'm sacrificing today to save for tomorrow while the masses are doing the opposite. And in a decade or 3 when I have assets they can out vote me and take it all back via taxes or rules that change the game

Some examples are like - I paid off my student debt by not going to coachella or doing optional things (that I observed others doing). They might get it cancelled for free. They got Coachella + Education, I only got Education. Rinse and repeat for all sorts of delayed gratification steps.

Re: SoftBank Vision funds post record $39B annual loss

#86

Post by vxNsr »

sremani wrote: post #26
jsemrau wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favourite conspiracy theory lately is that the Saudis needed to increase the oil price to recover losses from their VC investments.

I am not sophisticated investor or commodities trader -- but I do not think Oil prices work that way. The problem for Saudis always has been whatever cuts to production they make were fulfilled by others who exceed the quota. There are many oil rich but cash desperate parties out there. It's much easy for Saudis to create a panic than delicately reach a target price. May be I am wrong, but experienced commodity trade…

That’s why it was so helpful to them when Biden was elected, he immediately implemented policies that futures traders felt spelled decrease in supply both short and long term, that along w the war in Ukraine made for a very successful year.

Re: SoftBank Vision funds post record $39B annual loss

#87

Post by maerF0x0 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #40
ren_engineer wrote: post #25

SoftBank is a meme at this point but I'd imagine most VCs are down on paper as well, rising interest rates crushed the valuation of pretty much every startup

It's almost like none of them had any actual value, and the vast majority of them were just attempts to crush and take over existing markets using outside war chests.

I think a very large percent of them had a nonzero value, but the issue is if you can get 4% guaranteed return on cash, vs risky 1% return on cash suddenly the asset is worth less than before.

But if you can get unlimited money at 0% you might as well invest it on 1% return bets. You're still making money on others' money.

Re: SoftBank Vision funds post record $39B annual loss

#88

Post by codyb »

dylan604 wrote: post #84
codyb wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon was doing stuff though? Like getting books delivered to people’s homes.

Uber is getting people from point A to point B just as advertised

I think GP was talking about FTX in this case.

Uber also seemed a bit like a house of cards but I guess it’s pulling out of that.

Yellow cabs for me.

Re: SoftBank Vision funds post record $39B annual loss

#89

Post by sokoloff »

ipaddr wrote: post #79
sokoloff wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber allows 16 year old cars in my city. If you're driving a paid-off 5+ year old Honda or Toyota, I think Uber's paying enough for you to turn a decent profit from driving for them. https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/boston/vehicle-requirements... It probably isn't paying enough for you to buy a brand new car with a loan and drive that around for them. But they're not making you do that, either...

They are when you have no working car

Where are they making you buy a brand new car? That seems like something I'd have heard rancorous complaints about if it was actually happening.

Re: SoftBank Vision funds post record $39B annual loss

#90

Post by maerF0x0 »

hn_throawlles wrote: post #83
maerF0x0 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not directly wrong, but many who are against uber/softbank/capitalists would mix in an implicit assumption that the investor class use desperation as a tool to force short term beneficial actions despite long term consequences. You can make $100 today to afford an airbnb and a cheese burger, but you'll have lost money when the repair bill (or purchasing the next car) comes due.

or if you wanna be a much blunter in saying this: because this society NEEDS that there exists poor people, essentially people unable to refuse a shitty job.

depending on what you mean by Needs, i actually disagree. For example we could all be a lot richer with automation ... it seems the price of goods typically plummet once they're automated and saturated. Eg: food, iirc food production uses like 95% less people than in the past and is cheaper than it's ever been (practically free, and the very poor can get it for free at foodbanks etc).

I do think if we automate the production of lots of things the price will eventually drop as economics says it will. The hard part is the things we cannot automate but also need.

Post reply on HN